Feel like this might just want to require a certain number of artifacts. The sac ability is fun but makes the card a little too complex IMO.

I suggest we turn this card into a Deep-sea terror of some sort. Remove most of its text, make it a 6 mana 6/6 with a more conditional attack condition. If we want to keep the flying pirate trope, we can make another card at uncommon or rare as needed.

Complacent crew
Creature - Human pirate
6/6
~ can’t attack unless defending player control two or more artifacts.
Sacrifice an artifact : ~ can attack this turn as though opponents control two or more artifacts.

I also like that, as a 6/6, the pirate crew is strong enough to deal with most sea creatures and live to tell the tale. Just a little flavour win in my book.

If we want a nasty insect green creature that kills flying creatures on ETB, Spiders are the first thing that comes to mind (of course, we already have one spider at the common slot). Of course, then it would need Reach, and I think 5 mana for a 4/4 at common with that ability is too OP, just look at Stingerfling Spider's stats, uncommon 5 mana 2/5 reach

Yeah it probably shouldn't be a scarab

I agree we should test this and see how it goes, I'm open to Comicalflop's suggestion, but given how bad Flying Man is nowadays (especially in a thopter format) I'm willing to be this needs get better if anything, not worse.

I like the idea of changing it but if it's not a reprint, it doesn't need to be a scarab. Couldn't we come up with something more interesting for the creature type? Maybe a reference to some (now endangered) animal species living in the western jungles?

This still needs to change to something else. With Downbriar in the set, do we need more artifact destruction? Could this be a flying destruction instead?

Sniping scarab
4/4
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may destroy target creature with flying.

We are not looking for power creep. A lot of our common creatures are 2/3 and 3/3s, and this does a great job blocking them. Our average creature size is slightly smaller than usual, and looking at the commons that could kill a 5 toughness ox, we only have Stonemight, Outland Combine and Corpse Reshaper. A toughness of 4 is just enough to force your opponent to get creative, to have them windup or upgrade a creature, or use a combat trick, while still being interactive at this cost.

Can we make this better and not just a reprint? Inquisitor Ox just got printed and it's the same mana for a 2/5 with an extra benefit, at common.

I think it's fine as it is. 1/1 flying isn't so bad and the flying uEoT isn't that impactful to warren a change now. It does make it say in our line of sight during testing. At this point, I think we need to finish the commons (and decide how Trash will play), do a round of testing then move to uncommons because we won't get anywhere if we do not know what we want at uncommon to solidify the commons spots.

I second Raptor on this. I don't think switching to Golems makes anything better for us.

As stated by someone (I don't remember at this point, I think it was Moon-E), as much as this is a top-down set, the visuals should not affect the design. The only thing the visual can prevail on is flavor and names. And even then.

I don't think we should switch to golems, thopters (assuming they're flavored as mini airship type Gadgets) fit better flavorfully and work better in the colors () mechanically.

Also you might want to check the rarities on the cards that use X/X tokens. They are all at least Uncommon and most are Rares.

I count 24 cards MTG printed so far that have used X/X tokens, some as recent as Tarkir. So it's not unfeasible

keeping track of X/X tokens can be pretty annoying though

Could we change the flavor a bit and make Red's token makers produce golems instead of thopters? I have more red-themed artwork of mechanics making golems than thopters. Also you could word it like: "Steam Powered — When ~ enters the battlefield, put an X/X Red Golem artifact creature token onto the battlefield, where X is the amount of C spent to cast ~." That way, 1 colorless mana makes a 1/1 golem, making the card fair (but splitting it into two bodies) abd 2 colorless mana, which is harder to achieve, makes a 2/2 and a 2/1.

I like this better as a Steam-Powered card; it should be a 2 mana effect for a 1/1 flyer to give another creature flying until EOT, or 1 mana for a Zephyr Sprite. It's on theme too.

Comicalflop we discussed this on the MTGS thread and we came to the conclusion that we like how these interact with our untap effects and some of our land hosing enchantments. However it's quite possible that they'll prove to be too warping after testing, at which time we'll be open to other suggestions.

I feel like the nonbasic common slots should be similar to the Panorama cycle. It gives you access to the colorless mana needed for steam powered, and also gives you good color fixing.

I would like to remove the non-land part to have this possibly interact with Karro lands

This looks good. I am not sure whether the hexproof guy should be an uncommon though, as Mistfire Weaver and Mizzium Meddler are the blue cards that come closest to this ability. We can try it as common for now I think.

ComicalFlop's got some great art and this time we'll actually be working with them so it's not completely mismatched. If not, then I'd greatly prefer not doing art descriptions. I get that it adds something, but what it also adds is tons and tons of reading to cards that already often have lots of words on them. Yes I know you can choose to ignore them, but I think players would find it much more difficult than you think to ignore a paragraph of text on every one of their cards. It looks pretty bad in actual practice.

I think black has enough removal, but just in case, here is one more
Infected wound
Instant
Destroy target creature that took damage this turn

We could also give black some more discard. Right now, we only have Black Cat
Idea steal
sorcery
Target player discards a card, and you draw a card

How about a small board wipe? (probably uncommon)
Dust the floor
Sorcery
All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. Whenever a creature dies this turn, you gain 1 life.

Black occasionally gets direct life loss
Chronic pains
Sorcery
Target player loses 4 life. Shuffle ~ into its owner's deck.

The direct life loss could also take a form similar to Stab wound, although we already have Gremlin's Hunt doing something similar
Contaminated bond (reprint)
Enchantment - aura
Enchant creature
Whenever enchanted creature attacks or blocks, its controller loses 3 life.

If we do not want to do another gremlin hunt, how about a positive enchantments for black?
Scare pox
Enchantment - aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has menace.
When enchanted creature dies, you may put it on top of its owner's library.

We could fit a vanilla. Black is missing a 5-drop creature. It is also missing some trash enabler, or a card that spends the graveyard to make trash interesting in the late game. A third option would be first strike.

Cautious pipe dweller
Creature - Human
4/3
Whenever you play an artifact, ~ gains first strike until end of turn.
Grab whatever you can, and always test with your tool before stepping into the darkness

Viashino gang
Creature - viashino warrior
4/5

Starving forager
Creature - ogre
4/4
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile all creature cards in your graveyard. You gain 1 life for each card exile this way. MOOOOAAAR!!!

As far as art is concerned, I'm of the opinion that we should go 100% art descriptions, with only a few exceptions for particularly excellent artwork that we might find that fits particular descriptions. The imagination is one of the greatest image generators ever to exist, why should we ignore it? Wotc doesn't, look at how they commission their art.

Random artwork we might find online would likely throw the set into a tailspin. I've found very little high quality steampunk/cowpunk art, the vast majority of it looks atrocious and cartoony. I doubt it's the direction we want to go, it was one of the things that killed the last version of the set.

As much as I'd love to have sweet art, realistically the art in this set is either going to be pseudo random stuff we find online, or nonexistent. I like the flavor but I'm not being sold on the design because of that (especially since pristine talisman is another thing that could easily have been taken from mirrodin, given that's where its from).

Personally I'm a fan of reprints, and I think pristine talisman offers up a much better body for components given players are already drawn to the idea of tapping it for incremental value instead of mana. Plus, I'd actually prefer not to give component players an easy to use indestructible artifact to latch on to, but that's just my gut reaction and testing may show its necessary.

As for HC, honestly I disagree with the concept that it being a creature isn't relevant; I've had it picked off by a stray Sparkmage's Gambit, or swept up by Flaying Tendrils, Mire's Malice, or Radiant Flames. It being a creature is hugely relevant in these situations when I'm trying to ramp to big Eldrazi. I'm not saying this happens every game, but it also doesn't never happen.

I think you're missing the big picture. The point is not to have your mana creatures to die all the time, the point is that your opponents can actually interact with you if they want to. If I had a deck with 4 HCs, my opponent could sideboard and play in such a way to counteract my strategy. If I had a deck with 4 Mind Stones, my opponent most likely can't do anything to stop me from ramping. Casting HC is a risk since against a fast opponent they may elect to spend a cheap removal spell wasting my turn and stumbling my mana as they run me over. Casting "Hedron" usually won't be a risk, and I can do things like keep mana light hands confident that my ramp card is going to stick.

Distinctions like these are important even if they're not going to come up all the time. Its the same reason why we don't make "strictly better basics", even though most dual lands are much more powerful.

BSS has quite a few things over pristine talisman actually...

First, it's a much better base for components.

Second, it's more flavorful (it gives some backstory to the Prophet's travels, did you notice what the art description implied?)

Third, the talisman is a reprint and we have a bunch of reprints already.

Forth and finally, the talisman is fairly middle of the road as far as mana rocks go. It's not really an exciting base artifact to build you build machine on, the life gain always felt tacked on not really part of the effect.

On the green component, I'd be fine with something else. What'd you have in mind?

Edit: btw HC is basically:

Hedron
Artifact [common]
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
­: Add to your mana pool.

More often than not it's never used in combat and never a target for removal.

My point is just that you can't really claim Hedron Crawler is a 2 cost mana rock when my whole point was about creatures vs non-creatures.

Is there a reason to have Black Iron Statue in the set over Pristine Talisman?

I could see condenser unit going either way, though to be honest I'd be slightly more interested in finding a new effect. I'm not a fan of sticky mana in general, especially on a common in an already complicated set (Savage Ventmaw was uncommon)

IK both Hedron Crawler and Manakin are creatures, that's why I suggested bumping up Black Iron Statue's mana cost from to .

­Condenser Unit could be nerf'd to just provide instead of 1 Rainbow, though that would push it in a different direction.

Hedron Crawler is a creature! And as I specifically mentioned in my post all two mana ramp cards are now creatures. You don't see me fighting Manakin.

Condenser unit needs some work in general. I don't think it's feasible to add both the sticky mana and a clause to it.

The original set had a card that turned X into , which now would be written out in a much messier way. I was planning to bring that up during uncommon design but if we need it here we could add it.

I disagree with your assessment of 2 ETB mana rocks. You say that Wotc doesn't print them any more but we literarily had one last set in the form of HC.

I don't disagree with you on the fact that it would step on manakin's toes and that's probably reason enough to bump it up to , just to spread out our acceleration a bit.

As for the mana rock, the only reason Hedron Archive was uncommon was (almost certainly) because it could draw cards, that's not something you see at common any more.

Edit:

And if we are going to settle on Grim's suggestion on what we keep (MK, CU, mana rock, and map} then we should add colorless mana to (((condenser unit))).

I agree with MOON-E that we might not want to push ramp that much. Our current curve is way lower to the ground than BfZ and OotG. We do not have as many things to ramp into, but the colourless requirement is still there. I suggest we limit ourselves to Manakin, Condenser Unit and maybe a single 3-mana rock as mana accell, and to have colourless fixing to go with Expedition Map. We could add some more mana filtering.

Healing boon
Artifact
­ : Add to your mana pool, and gain 1 life. Activate this ability only once each turn.

I am only as skittish as wizards.

Look, it's no secret that 2 mana acceleration has been cut down tremendously. The last time we got a 2 mana artifact that could ramp was Mirrodin Besiged with Sphere of the Suns. The last rampant growth we had was Farseek in m13! Ramp is very much alive today but it exists in the form of creatures, even if it means incredibly hard to kill creatures like Sylvan Caryatid.

Mana acceleration is the most dangerous part of magic and its taken years for WotC to realize how to handle it properly. In the past, ramp was kept in check by a high volume of efficient removal; it doesn't matter if you play your big guy two turns early if Doom Blade is a common. But today removal is weaker and creatures are stronger, and as a result ramp gets a lot more dangerous.

Not only are 2 mana ramp cards very strong, but what you're suggesting here is both colorless and common. I would be far more open to the idea of a mana rock at uncommon (like Sphere of the Suns), but at common it becomes far too prevalent when it can easily be played alongside two other colorless common ramp cards. 4 mana ramp is fine as well, but again Hedron Archive was an uncommon.

While I agree with your point on Hedron Crawler (and by extension Manakin) I disagree with your point on two mana artifact acceleration and the superiority of 3 mana accelerators.

I think two mana accelerators are fine, even if they must ETB tapped. As for four mana acceleration, I believe that they are fine as well. I think you might be being too skittish.

But Hedron Crawler was pretty strong. It provided ramp in a midrange format and gave access to in a format that wanted it. In most of the drafts I've done or seen it goes somewhere in the high/middle of the pack (I'm talking like picks 4-8). Manakin in this format triggers windup and can hold components.

­Kozilek's Channeler costing 1 more is a huge deal when you're talking about mana acceleration . Not only that, but the Channeler has summoning sickness and can be killed with creature removal, and these are two huge things that matter when you're dealing with ramp.

­Darksteel Ingot was reprinted at uncommon.

Here's the thing, two mana artifact accelerators are hugely dangerous for all sorts of reasons. That fact is compounded when you're also trying to add a 4 mana accelerator. The combination of the two allows for some explosive ramp draws that certain decks just won't be able to stop due to lack of artifact removal, especially if you're trying to make one of them indestructible.

3 mana accelerators are a pretty safe space to play in, providing decent ramp that only dedicated decks will run. Cards like the new Seer's Lantern are good enough to get played in decks that want them but bad enough that other players won't just take the free mana (see Signets).

Not really, Hedron Crawler is ok in limited but I'd hardly call it pretty strong. It's not like the one extra power is going to make Manakin a beast in limited.

Heck, Kozilek's Channeler costs only one more than Ring of the Prophet () and it comes with a 4/4 body.

­Darksteel Ingot fixes for every color and is a common. A colorless version should cost less than it does.

In any case, we want to push multiple costs and having each card only produce a single will put a lot of pressure on drafting them high in limited, that's not necessarily the best position for us to put players in.

Both of those seem very strong to me, especially with the other in the set. Manakin's already pretty strong.

Personally I'm fine as-is. It can still be tapped via windup.

Reposting these from the MTGS thread as I think they'd be more interesting than the two Talismans...

Ring of the Prophet
Art description: A ring of the plainest brightest gold slowly spins above a pedestal, the background of the scene looks to be a museum some some kind.
Focus: The Ring of power.
Artifact [Common]
­: Add to your mana pool.
Heirlooms from the prophet's time on Archester, many of his rings still power Archester greatest inventions today.

Black Iron Statue
Art Description: A small black metallic statue sits on the corner of a desk. A couple of tiny motes of energy circle around the statue which seems to depict a golem of some kind holding a sphere in its hands, the tiny sphere has five tiny motes of energy circling it.
Focus: the strange statue of the golem.
Artifact [Common]
~ is indestructible.
­: Add to your mana pool.
Created from an element unknown to Archester, these tiny statues have become status symbols for for wealthy industrialists, trinkets from the Prophet's travels to and from Archester.

While I think this would be an excellent card for the set, it doesn't fit with our "All Non-Component Artifacts can tap."

Do we want to change this up? or are we ok with leaving it as it is?

Yeah, I forgot about that too. You're right it should have the "doesn't empty" rider on it.

Do we want a special clause "Until end of turn, this mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end" like on Savage Ventmaw? Otherwise, you attack and lose your mana as soon as blockers are declared

WotC's new go-to template is to gain a single life, regardless of the number of players

I agree, I reworked the card to use more tapping.

We are good on the Thrash count with Garbage Scavenger and Choking Smog. We do not need the ability to be exclusively on creatures to feel its presence in the set.

EDIT : Apparently we have two garbage scavengers in the set. One of them should change name so we can refer to the black one without the green one hoping up. For reference, the black one is

Garbage scavenger
Creature - Bird
2/1
Flying
Trash – When Garbage Scavenger enters the battlefield, if you have three or more nonland permanents in your graveyard, put a +1/+1 counter on it.

We're missing a couple of things in black, deathtouch for one and another Trash creature for another.

thoughts?

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/custom-set-creation-and/612364-the-archester-revival-thread-steampunk-set

posting this link here for people like me who want to follow along but encountered the set through multiverse

I agree with the artifact token text though. Makes it so the thopter lords won't be picked so much by Windup players.

We CURRENTLY have no noncreature artifact that are valid targets. But think of it this way. We are bound to create Components with stuff like "Tap upgraded artifact: Regenerate it." or similar stuff. In that case, this suddenly forces the player to use the ability at an awkward time or lose it all together.

As for mana denial, rocks are "cheese" anyway so denying artifact ramp isn't a big trouble in my books.

I say we should wait until at least the uncommons are completed before cutting artifact from this card's text.

The exact text will most likely be decided once we get to doing uncommons and IF we decide this still needs to exist.

I'll say it here but it stands for a good amount of cards.

Comical, keep in mind that a good amount of the cards on here are still existing as references but are not though of to go in the set currently. (This card is a good example) If you want to make sure you are commenting on cards we think are worth it currently, look through the skeleton for what is currently on the plate for "printing"

As for your comment on this card, yes, this interacts in a dramatic way with Reactive Armor. And yes, I think we need to be careful with put in play effects. You are right in all points.

Because we copied every single card submissions from the forum over to here, without regards to duplicates and power level.

No, the goal is to have those be artifact lords.

Having windup be sorcery speed or not has been an ongoing question since the creation of the mechanism. At first we were worried it might cause too much board complexity, and I am still not sure if it does or not since we have not had enough play testing done to confirm one way or the other. The sorcery speed got removed when, about mid development, Oath of the gatewatch came out, proving that Cohort does not need to be sorcery speed.

I would be one of the first one, however, to return back to sorcery speed. Cohort is not equivalent with Windup. Cohort avoids for the most part board complexity, with cards creating either card advantage, dealing direct player damage, or in the case of Spawnbinder Mage, simplifying board position. The only cohort card that significantly increases board complexity is Munda's Vanguard. As a comparison, every single Windup card we have increases board complexity if left at instant speed, which is not something I am comfortable with until play tested intensively. This places Windup closer to Outlast, which needs to be sorcery speed to be at common because instant speed buff increases board complexity, than Cohort.

I hope this answered your question?

Why is this card here if Engineer's Assistant does the exact same thing but directly tutors it to hand, at the same mana cost, and is a 2/2?

While our new version of Windup has some similarities to Outlast, I'd say it was closer akin to Cohort from Oath. You'll notice that, while both involve tapping creatures, one is sorcery-speed and the other instant-speed. Obviously that implies that even Wotc is willing to push things a little further when they feel it's useful to the set, as it is here.

Is the intent for all artifact creatures to benefit, or just the Thopters? I think it'd be better for the cycle of these Thopter producers + buffers to only give benefits to the tokens they make, much like the Golem cycle of New Phyrexia. If that's the case, I weould either suggest "Artifact tokens you control have first strike" or probably the better option is "Thopter creatures you control have first strike."

How is tapping noncreature artifacts going to help? There are no artifacts in the current cardset that have static abilities that care whether or not they're untapped, like Howling Mine, and any other artifact can simply tap for mana or activate it's tap ability in response.

The card text needs a slight text tweak; the phrase "deals combat damage equal to its power" suggests that the damage has to be spread out amongst all the attacking or blocking creatures during combat. If you look at the fight mechanic, the creatures deal normal damage, not combat damage; my suggestion is changing it to "instead it deals damage equal to its power to each attacking or blocking creature target player controls." (Used Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile's card text as reference for the correct wording.)

I agree with push to sorcery or bump to uncommon, or to keep at common and increase mana cost by 1. The card is pushed compared to predecessors Midnight Haunting/Lingeroing Souls, and is also flexible in that for 4 colorless mana any color has access to the spell.

What are thoughts on making Windup a Sorcery-speed activated ability only? Wizards had a reason for making Outlast from Khans be Sorcery speed; instant speed activation makes it too easy to play "Draw-Go" control style and leave creatures untapped as blockers, then activate when opponent goes to his end step.

What about a Brindle Shoat type card?

Western Wolf
Creature — Wolf [Common]
When ~ dies, put a colorless 2/2 Wolf artifact creature token onto the battlefield.
As pollution spread westward, wildlife began to die off. The western elves stepped in to fill the gaps.
2/2

Do we need a Borderland Ranger-esque card? Could this slot fit for it?

This is why I wanted it to simply turn your base power into the artifact count. Still crazy good but it can't be activated more than once a turn preventing a one shot scenario

Yeah somehow I missed the rarity. My bad

Refresher's ability is too weak to fit on a 5 drop I think. Although, I would be ok with making an artifact-hating Kami in green. When green has to choose one, it's artifact.

Would a 'Untap on creature death' be too strong at common?

"Whenever a creature your opponents control dies, you may untap or tap a permanent." Maybe just untap lands?

I don't think it's worth it, grim. I would prefer red flagging this as a 'edge case creator' than making it clunky.

Domain =/= artifact count. If you think of it this way, you can go up to 5 only with domain (and in limited it's hard). With Thopters as our go-to token, we are in a similar position as Scars was with the myrs. We can try this but trust me, it will be dangerous.

The worst about this is that since it is an artifact itself, at the very worst, you are getting +1/+0. (Not really good but there is almost no way it fails.) With a single Thopter Hermit maxed out, you get +3/+0 for 3. Add some other thopter, component or random artifacts, you can get a massive firebreathing. At that point, this becomes a "block this or die" situation.

Sorcery
Creatures you control gain trample.
SP, they get +2/+0.

I think there's no red loot effect, so that's also an option. Honestly, I suspect the set could easily make with one less common red removal spell. I count 4 cards, topping at CMC4, that can deal damage. Of these only one is restricted to only creatures or only players.

Should be "in all graveyards". Also does green really have need for both an incidental life gain card (Dawn Stag) and a dedicated one?

How about put the ability from Refresher on this and make Refresher a green, artifact-destroying version of Kami of Ancient Law?

­Hellkite igniter is also a 5/5 flying haste dragon, which is worth being rare. Wandering Goblins would be the more accurate comparison

We may want to reduce this card's toughness or change it's ability because this can be a major game winner as it stands.

Personally, I feel this effect could very well be on a build around me uncommon and do it justice.

I would propose this having a Flowstone Wall effect or have it be akin to Wandering Fumarole rather than an effect only seen on a rare yet for a reason.

Oath of the gatewatch had its fight spell at uncommon (the new kind with the one sided fight). This may had to do with the fact that it was a small set though.

I really like this card. If we end up replacing the slot with a one-sided fight spell, would it be possible to keep this at uncommon?

For the fight card, here's a suggestion

­ Sorcery - Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. Then, that creature deals damage equal to its power to another target creature.

I'd like the scorpion changed anyway to make room for (((Deathfang Rattler))), we could change it's cmc while we're at it.

One mana unconditional steam engine is maybe pushing it though. Could we keep it at a 2 mana-dork, or a 1 mana conditional one?

Beginner mistake : Cast 2 Dense Mist on 2 different creatures and expect both to be able to deal damage. I know this adds more clunkiness to the wording, but "not chosen by cards named Dense Mist"? Is this too situational to be worth the strange wording?

We are missing a fight card in the commons. could this be what gets replaced? I mean, it's awesome but it's filling a similar role to Burst of Strength.

Repeatable creature destruction in an artifact set is most definitely not common.

I prefer it way more this way. As it was (creature and artifacts in the grave), I feel it was clunky. (As clunky as War Report)

While I love the flavor and ability, Rust Scarab was an uncommon originally in Gatecrash. Is it too good as a common?

­Terrifying Presence is a perfect template example

­Prophet's "Scorpion" is currently at 3 mana. Is that enough?

I get the cuteness of this, but I feel like green really just wants a straight up mana producer.

Keeping it simple for now. "Target creature" would be automatically redflagged

Not really feeling this one. Couldn't we come up with something better than Mardu Blazebringer? Besides that was an uncommon.

1) That is a complete break of the cycle.

2) The point of the cycle is lenticular design

3) We've already discussed this line haven't we?

This has weird interactions with Generator Servant, are we ok with that? I mean they're a pretty obvious combo in limited since they're both commons.

would it be possible to give this something in addition to Trample? I really do think our common abilities should scale.

Into the Wilderness is cool, although I would put it as Into the Wild.

Venture into the Wild? Wild Ventures? Tracing Tales? (Going hard on the 'Tales' aspect) Trail Tracing?

Also Grim's wording is perfect.

What about Into the Jungles/Wilderness? it would go well with Grim's rewording since it would be like you're bring back tales of the lands you found.

I have nothing against being 'confusing' (Explore, Exploration)

Here are my ideas: Trail discovery, Undiscovered Wilderness, Trailblazing, Trailshaping

Too bad explore has been taken. It'd be a perfect name for a Victorian era exploration card.

Although I should have checked gatherer, there's already "Trailblazer" to "Trailblaze" might be confusing. Maybe needs an adverb?

I too like the name "Trailblaze" and sorcery speed.

Would "Trailblaze" be ok as a name? With "blaze" first it sounded a bit red.

Looks good. Probably should be sorcery speed?

I prefer a less restrictive wording

Put the top 4 cards from your library into your graveyard. For each spent to cast ~, return up to one land card from your graveyard into your hand.

Too similar to Blaze a Trail

@grim: Blue hasn't been fully retrofitted with new SP. So yes it should get at least one more SP card. The same is true for white.

And I forgot about Steam Infusion. Yeah, this could use a rework.

I'll agree that we shouldn't go overboard with requiring multiple on the commons but I do think it would be better for them to be able to activate multiple times.

For example, I think we should have more of this

": ~ gets +2/+0 until eot."

Than this

": ~ gains haste until eot."

Blue currently only has Steam Draw. Did you want one single- in blue too? Also, white does not have a single- (which I think is fine), and the black common steam-powered card is an almost exact copy of this : Steam Infusion. It is hard to keep the identity of black and red separated.

I like the card as is. Ghirapur Gearcrafter is an incredibly strong card, so even if you can get a single this card is already great. You gotta have some first pick cards for each archetype.

FWIW, this is also pretty hard to pull off turn 3 full power.

At common blue and red get the multi- cards and other colors get the "just one" cards. That said, this is the only single card in red...

If you miss on this card, it is really bad. This is a thopter environment and a 2/1 body just does not cut it at 3 mana. Could it get first strike, or an extra toughness, or something so that it does not trade with a thopter or gremlin at the very least? Or are we fine making a card that is exclusively aimed at Steam-powered limited, and is unplayable everywhere else?

We will have many steam-powered cards that require multiple , which will make the set play differently from OotG, but that should not mean that all our cards should require multiple . We do need some cards that give a gentle nudge toward colourless, but that do not require you be all-in to be effective. We just need to limit the number of those cards to less than the ones that reward you for really committing, like Thopter Hermit.

Right now, I admit we do need a bit more of the latter.

I feel like our steampowered stuff needs to require multiple , if we want for it to feel and play different when compared to Oath. In Oath, you splash , we want our steampowered deck to go all-in on .

I'm not sure black gets land destruction at the same rates as red. Ever since Poison/Drain the well, its land destruction has costed at least 5, even with only minimal bonuses (Desecrated Earth, Maw of the Mire, Polluted Dead, Destroy the Evidence).

But Parasitic Implant was removal, not something you put on your own creature to get value when it dies. And it only put a single token. This is neither quite black, nor even is it common.

­Parasitic Implant makes me think this is more than okay. In fact, i think this should be "enchant permanent"

-2/-2+draw a card? -3/-3+life drain?

Yes, it is. Is a functional reprint or variant of Unhallowed Pact an option?

What about a different bonus rather than getting bigger? Similar to Unholy Hunger

Isn't this a white effect?

Why does this not just ETB with the counter? Also should be "if there are three or more" either way.

Starting to fill out the skeleton. Proposing this as the CR05 slot in the skeleton. The base creature could be upgraded to a 1/2 or 1/3

I am interested in having this be a large bulky late game common that cycles late land into fuel.

Minion Exploiter
Creature - Ogre
5/4
Exploit
When ~ exploits a creature, discard a card. If you do, draw two cards.

If we make the change and fill the top end of red, I am proposing this as the CR09 slot in the skeleton

Starting to fill out the skeleton. Proposing this as the CR06 slot in the skeleton. I believe this plays enough into our themes that it is worth to have it at common. In favour of removing first strike though, as it adds nothing to the interesting part of the card. I would rather have it be a clean 3/3

Starting to fill out the skeleton. Proposing this as the CR02 slot in the skeleton. What do you think about a toughness increase to make it 2/2?

I am also in favour of having one to three fuel cards here and there as an unnamed mechanism. If we made this card as an enabler, it would still need to do something a little more relevant relevant while grinding.

Grinding Screech could be plausible if it milled everyone as it could help enable Trash and feed Fuel (still in favor of having a few "fuel" cards)

This needs rewording right?

But, why?

I think we should consider the fact that Wotc doesn't design with Legacy in mind. They throw minnows out into the waters of legacy and only step in to kill it once one of them becomes a shark and eats everything.

If we're following Wotc's footsteps then I say we just toss it out there and see how big of waves it makes in the enteral formats.

Would it be possible to replace this with the Sky Pirate design we had a while back?

Sky Pirate
Creature - Human Rogue [Common]
As long as ~ is untapped, it has hexproof.
As long as ~ is tapped, it has flying.
2/2

I think this would be better, though less powerful, as a Sorcery

fair enough, you've caught me, I'm a player. :P

You're right though. It'd be better as a mono-black card than a twobrid.

Why would white, green and red care about a pure milling card, and one that is not that efficient at that? The average number of cards you will reveal is 5.

I am not a modern player, but I can look at MTGGlodfish for the metagame. In Modern, this is dead against Affinity, Tron, and Abzan company. It is a great hit against Liliana, Abzan and Jund, Scapeshift and Burn. Menfolk and Infect play 2-off spell pierce, which this could replace.

I believe it could be fine in modern. My problem lies elsewhere.

I am a legacy player. Ignoring wasteland since that land very rarely stays in play more than a single turn, this card would hit every deck except the fridge 12-post and MUD. It would replace Spell pierce in every delver deck, in Sneak and show, in Esper mentor, Esper stone blade, and so on. Currently, about 2/3 of every deck that plays blue plays 2 spell pierce, and a lot of decks play blue. The impact would be hard to gauge, but it would still make it so every blue decks have a better late game. Since Legacy is such a spell based format, this would be the equivalent of printing a 1 mana Counterspell that hits 3/4 of the metagame. Be aware also that the format is powerful enough that Counterspell is usually played as a 1-off.

I believe this is too strong to print in Legacy. Even if players shift their Wastelands tactics to try to dodge it.

If we do windup (hehe) moving this ability to Lost in the Desert I'd like to put forth this as a Twobrid replacement:

Grinding Screech
Sorcery [Common]
Each opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals 2 land cards, then puts all cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard.

Are we sure we want a blue card making thopters at common? Won't that throw a wrench in 's token identity? I can see an uncommon and a rare but I'm not really on board with a common thopter maker.

Strongly disagree here. First of all yes we're comparing this to Spell Pierce, not counterspell. Second of all, I think we can agree that since our high profile dual land cycle for this set makes , we're only really worried about Modern.

Now if you'd like to convince me this card is too good to print in modern, I'm all ears. I have no qualms what-so-ever about printing a modern playable counterspell. I'm sure this card would make a splash, but modern is such a creature dense format I'm not sure this would break blue in any way.

If blue winds up needing more toughness, I sure hope this guy gets it. Sigiled Starfish and what not.

Changing speed is not a problem with cycles. Just look at the commands.

It could easily be kept with the new changes :

­ - "Add to your mana pool. Steam-powered - If was spent to cast ~, add to your mana pool instead"

Does this wants to be Forceful Drain?

Sorcery - "You gain two life. Then, for each spent to cast ~, remove a counter from target permanent and put a +1/+1 counter on target creature"

I vote for sorcery. Instant card filtering is really strong.

(Raptor or anyone, how do you write your cards so that you do not have to put empty lines between the text?)

Taken from Scholar of athreos

Prophet's scorpion

Artifact creature - insect

­ : Each opponent loses 1 life. You gain 1 life.

1/3

I agree with Legend's suggestion but I'm not sold on our current implementation of depletion.

Could remove counters, which would then replace the current common counter removal card in black. Also we potentially want to make this a sorcery to allow for Contemplate to also become a sorcery.

We can make it a sorcery if the Black one changes and also becomes a sorcery in the process.

I think we should move this one to sorcery, even though it'll break the cycle a little bit.

If I had to choose between this and Deathfang Rattler, I think Deathfang is the more interesting design. If we want to speed the format up, DF is our man (err... snake... w/e :p) this'll favor more control-y decks and slow the format further.

Edit: here's Deathfang Rattler c&p'ed from Ghoul Overseer:

Deathfang Rattler
Creature - Snake [Common]
Deathtouch
Prevent all damage ~ would deal to Artifact Creatures.
2/2

If this does get shifted to green in favor of Corrupted Earth, it should change to something similar to bramblecrush variant and moved to uncommon. Green shouldn't get common LD, at least not one with card advantage. My suggestion is...

Past Enminty
sorcery [Uncommon]
Return a land from your graveyard to your hand then choose one of the following:
• Destory target Artifact.
• Destory target Enchantment.
• Destroy target Land.

This is going to need a rework with the changes to Steampowered. Anyone have any ideas?

I propose shifting this to green and putting Corrupted Earth here. Unless Archester wants both in black.

Corrupted Earth (Common) {1B} Enchantment – Aura Enchant land Enchanted land produces instead of any other type and amount. Whenever enchanted land becomes tapped, its controller loses 1 life.

This was here to play on the taping theme of the set, but its similarities to Sheriff's Warning are duly noted.

I am going to put Divine Verdict in for now as a place holder. Since Clock In is now a sorcery this should become an instant, and 4 is about the right price for it. Feel free to continue discussing alternatives.

Legend brings up a very relevant position, but I think the majority wishes to keep the cycle as-is, including myself. I will not change the core functionality of this cycle until after it is tested (i.e. a long time from now). If/When it becomes clear they don't work, I'm very willing to give up the Buckshot dream.

Vigilance fliers seem very strong. FS is also strong but at least you only get to either attack or block, not both.

Removed due to changes to SP. Replacement needed.

I would like this moved to Artifact Creatures, it'll open up the white commons a bit and give Thopters a colorless creature that they'll want to grab.

IF we use the depletion idea, it should probably be a sorcery imo.

how will this work with the new "depletion" idea that's been being tossed around?

Switch it to a sorcery that puts a "depletion counter" on target land? or should we leave it as it is?

This and Meshblade are the same card, shouldn't we consolidate them?

I think the red uncommon should be the First strike one, since it'll free us up to have the uncommon white one give lifelink.

I agree the common white one should give vigilance. look at my suggestion from a few months back. :)

I agree with Legend.

Should cost at least cmc4. Perhaps with a secondary effect like Moan of the Unhallowed.

If only C was spent to cast Ghoulraise, put a 5/5 black Zombie Giant ceature token onto the battlefield instead.

Like I said in the skeleton, this should be uncommon and the common version should grant vigilance.

This should be uncommon. The common version should grant vigilance.

Feels too limiting, but I'd wait for development.

As an aside, the card doesn't need to grant the thopters the ability. It could just read:

": Target Thopter gets +1/+0 until end of turn."

Don't get me wrong, I think that card is great as it is. I'm just throwing it out as a possibility.

Here is a case where I think the card is better off a little more committed to red than not. There are not many cards in the set that push away from colorless-ness, and this is one of the more natural ones. It gives players options during a draft, as if they cannot build a proper steam mana base, they can fall back on this. And a two mana activation plays so differently than a one mana one that the card may need to be reevaluated at that point.

Rather than the traditional Firebreathing, what do you guys think about instead? It'd increase interaction between the and archetypes and would take the focus of the card off and put it on colorless instead.

I've been looking through older sets and I'm not sure flash at common for Artifact Creatures. Even hasn't had a common creature with flash since Village Bell-Ringer and that was 4 years ago. (God, I can't believe that Innistrad was 4 years ago.)

Looking back at the old file, the original Steamstress had , : Add Do we want her to filter only blue mana, or any kind of mana?

Yeah, multiple fights within the same card effect turn really wonky. I'm pretty sure, fight 1 thing (die) then fight another thing, wasn't the intent.

Unfortunately, the non-flavor text suggestion is still confusing. I would assume many players would think that if a Glory Seeker was to fight two Goblin Roughriders consecutively, that his first fight would kill him. But it doesn't. Because the game won't check for states until the card is finished resolving.

If the two instances of fight are separated, that would reduce the confusion. "If there are 3 or more nonland permanent cards in your graveyard, that creature then fights up to one additional creature." Or we could have a short reminder text (It deals damage equal to its power to both targets, then receives damage equal to their combined power)

Why this template instead of ", : Put a 1/1 colourless Thopter artifact creature token with flying into the battlefield. Activate this ability only during your upkeep"

Woth considering as an uncommon I think.

I don't like weird double fights at common. Most players are going to intuit this card incorrectly.

I actually had the opposite opinion: I want at least one threaten at common. The fact that exploit would require you to cast both spells on the same turn (unlike say Nantuko Husk) makes it less oppressive and more interesting IMO. Besides this interaction is commonplace in coresets, I don't think it's out of bounds here.

I feel like we could adapt this into an Uncommon along the lines of Myrsmith and its cycle.

Green is primary in this effect. Returning cards from the graveyard to the hand or top of library are the same effect but with different power levels, and is something green does every set. Black gets a subset of this effect and can do it to only creatures.

This needs to turn into a non-creature card I think. We have too many creatures bearing spells effect currently. If it stays like that, you could technically build a deck with only creatures and not even miss much, assuming you went 3 colors. (Which means Thrash is easy to activate)

It isn't so bad since fighting two creature means it will probably die in the end. The only trouble is if we add too many common or uncommon deathtouch effects in the set. Then it starts to be troublesome.

Normal +2/-1, Thrash +3/+0? Because with only +2, it's pretty much a FeelBad moment very time Thrash is triggered. You most often won't need the extra toughness enough to justify losing some removal.

Due to the interaction of Exploit and Act of Treason effects, I think we should avoid them at common. Unco at the very least.

I think the reason it doesn't read well is due to the placement of the regen clause. If it were at the end, where they normally are, it'd look better.

It'll probably be ok as it is. The odds are if the creature you control hits two creatures of any reasonable size, it'll trade with them making this a 2-for-2.

Bump to rare and remove the mana cost limit?

This reads really ugly! I would be tempted to cut this one completely, and I made the card.

It could just as easily be black if it were "put a creature card on top of your library" This could go either way.

I was expecting a card that allows a creature to fight two creatures would create some controverse. I believe it is ok, but I am biased as the creator of the card. Anyone feels this is too strong/complex/cheap/should be uncommon?

Strangely enough, passes the thopter test (See Disciple Executioner for a description of that test), yet this is just so wordy for nothing when you do not have thopters to sacrifice that I wonder if it could not be cleaned up a bit. If you do not have any artifact creatures worse than 2 thopters, this is a straight up 1/1 flying for 1R, and the gremlin body will rarely matter

Strictly better Bone Splinters is less elegant than a straight up reprint

I like the one toughness as a slight drawback in a thopter environment on an otherwise great creature

The effect is a little weird too. Depending on which version of Trash we wind up going with, it'll have odd interactions.

Not passing the thopter test (See Disciple Executioner for a description of that test)

The deathtouch does fight with the increased power and decreased toughness, as both part do the same thing : make it trade more easily. The death touch was not the best addition. How about +2/-1, Trash +2/+0 instead? This way you do get your removal early, but lose the ability to kill stuff later in the game, a slight drawback masked as a slight upside? That way it plays differently than Riot spikes, without being a strict upgrade.

It is also hard to go too low on the stats of an exploit creature, otherwise players just sacrifice the creature itself to get it's ability. My point of reference is a Thopter token. If, when given the choice of sacrificing the exploit creature or a thopter token, I would choose the exploit creature, then the exploit creature's body is a bit too weak. This is on the edge, as on turn 1-3 I would rather have a 2/1, but on later turns I would rather have a thopter.

Forgot about black cat. I was inspired by Noggle Ransacker. How about "each player draws a card, then discard a card at random"? With a bump to uncommon for the time consuming effect?

It's probably not quite as strong as I originally imagined, since Windup requires tapping two creatures to work, but it is still very strong. It'd be interesting as a possible rare, since it would play great as a 1st or 2nd pick build-around card for the Windup deck, but currently it's a dangerous common that needs either a jump in rarity or a couple of good wacks with the nerf bat.

This was the "pricier" version of the card. The other concept was more akin to Welding Jar and was 2 mana and worked a la Totem Armor. Currently, this is more of "better" Blinding Powder

Raptor has a point here. Currently, this plays dangerously good in Windup...

I agree with grim in that it should be able to attack at some point but I don't want it to be straight forward if possible. Something like ": ~ can attack this turn." is too easy. Kind of like how multiple creatures were enabled by Assault Formation in DOT. Maybe a sub-theme of Defenders in some group and have a "defender lord"?

It doesn't NEED to be red. Colorless Juggernauts have long had that ability.

Way back when during original archester testing this thing was an all-star. I'm not sure I'd want to make it much better on its own. Also right now it definitely players into exploit archetype.

Yeah this is way too much. I'm fine with either tapping for colorless or one of any color, not both (at common at least).

I'm torn, because windup key lets you do things on its own.

This either needs to be simplified or bumped up in rarity

We're going to have to keep an eye on this. This could be very, very, good with windup and could result in massive creatures very easily.

Could we add something like "If the upgraded artifact is a creature, it gets +1/+0." in the vein of Sylvok Lifestaff? That would make the component more agressive and push the Thopter archetype towards at least some of the components so there is competion between the archetypes for cards.

Perhaps something along the lines of Prismatic Lens or Prophetic Prism would be more inline with a common? This feels like a uncommon at the moment.

I feel like this is the card the Windup Key is wanting to be.

We've come a long way from Welding Jar, are the additional regenerations worth this much mana?

if you feel the complexity of the counter removing is an issue, we could give it a tap ability like Gideon's Lawkeeper. Then there would be tension between winding it up and tapping something down.

I second making it tap, but also am of the mind that these counter removal abilities are too complex in general.

I'm no a huge fan of removing counters as a general theme. It seems like keeping the counters is often going to be better so it kind of just gums up the text.

This being red doesn't line up with any archetypes. Either it's a wacky cross-color card or it should be colorless.

If we want to lower the wordiness of the card, why not just have it tap target creature? Effectively the same but without the headache of trying to remember why something can't attack or block for no obivous reason.

We could make it rare. I like the design, and it is situational and powerful enough to warrant the rare status, or mythic uncommon at the very least.

There exists a 2/4 lifeline vigilance at common at and a pure 2/4 vigilance at . We could add a mana, or removing first strike, depending on which hole in the cardset we want to plug. I would tend to remove first strike first

Prefer the new version! Nice french vanilla. Do any of you think it could lose defender?

MOON-E : Windup at instant speed adds a lot of complexity already, yet the timing of this does not overlap windup's decision making, which makes it overall less complex. The defending player controlling Brass Emissary must declare if he uses the ability before attackers are declared, so before any commitment from the opponent. This is the equivalent of gideon's law keeper in other sets.

I like this card. A weird exploit effect (not always useful) and a nice body to burn (should we stop with the puns?) later on to another Exploit effect.

My only trouble with this is how it overshadows Riot Spikes. Circeus: I find it better this way since you can use it early as removal, later on as a game ender.

Black Windup? I could see this as a 'fuel' type of card.

Windup in blue? Should we make a one-of from every group in an offcolor? Because abilities like this makes me wonder what would happen.

I say this needs a place as a potential card. It being a rushy type makes it a "failed" prototype. Although I'm not sure where it would fit flavour wise.

How about "When ~ attacks with two or more flying creatures, flying creatures you control gains +1/+0 until end of turn. Then ~ gains flying" That way, only the rider gains flying and he doesn't benefit from his buff unless he had flying before attacking.

What space does this fill that Black Cat doesn't already fill in the exploit archetype?

Because unlike this card, Grim Discovery is not likely to get back two creatures.

I'm fine with moving it to uncommon for complexity, but our discussion is only about whether this ability falls within black's pie.

Why not simply make it similar to Grim Discovery then and simplify the card immensely?

And black has never gotten a land back except for Grim Discovery. In an artifact set, black gets to care about artifacts a little bit more, and this is a mechanical stretch that feels right at home in this set.

I mean, I could see artifact creature, but black has never done it with artifact. It's a significant part of its color pie after all.

Circeus, as someone who isn't actively part of the MTGS thread it's important to remember that A) we're in design, not development, and B) all of the cards we have now are proably gong to be narrowed down to only 20% of the commons in the actual set. These are brainstorms, most are not intended to be final or permanent. This is why they're all currently "false" and have no card codes

It may be worth trying to make a common version, given the subtheme in black red.

Remember that probably less than 20% of the cards we have now are going to be in the set.

Second point of toughness helps it block thopters. Whether this needs to be an artifact is a skeleton question.

That's a stretch I'm more than fine with making here.

Why so many cheat exploiters?? I thought the good combination was exploiter at 3+ CMC and creatures that want to die at 3and less CMC... This one is especially bad since you its cost makes you want to play it early but its ability wants to be played late! Not a good tension IMO.

This looks perfect for a guiding uncommon. Black does not usually grant haste at common currently.

This is an uncommon.

You're correct as far as the body goes, however there is some interesting interplay between the body and its ability. The body says "Play me ASAP!", whereas the text says "Wait for value..." It might be interesting seeing which way it gets played more often, even if it is a little strong.

This is a little too good for a black bear and is fighting for space with Disciple Executioner.

This seems to fight with itself, or fill to many roles at once. Why not just "enchanted creature has deathtouch, if trash, P/T bonus"?

2/1s for are not common nor are they usually this good.

Is this something you're willfully bleeding into red or is there some sort of discard theme? Because this is a black effect otherwise (and almost certainly too good with exploit, too, to be at that cost).

Even without the first strike, this is almost certainly not common.

That makes three green vigilance creatures (with Refuse Onlooker and Refresher). THat's very high for a color that's secondary in an ability, even white only occasionally gets two common vigilance cards.

I think this might be interesting as an improved Wind Drake in the vein of Runewing, I'm also not sure if it needs to be an artifact, but either way if we wind up bumping it to a 2/2 it might need to be if it's an artifact or if it's not.

This may be too wordy period. Also black doesn't return noncreature artifacts from the graveyard.

Second ability should probably have a tap cost itself. However, Alchemist's Vial was just printed doing something very close in colorless.

An interesting option is making it obligatory: "At the beginning of combat on each opponent's turn, remove a +1/+1 counter from ~. If a counter is removed this way, target creature can't attack this turn."

But that is rather wordy.

I'm not sure I like having instant speed effects like this with windup. Lots of board complexity.

Also nonhybrid cards shouldn't be artifacts.

I copy all cards from the thread word for word for bookkeeping purposes. I agree this thing is way over the curve for a common. Not sure if I want to nerf it or bump its rarity though.

I love the design but it might be a bit too wordy for a common. :-/

Remember that you can link to cards in the multiverse! click "formatting help" to find out how!

I think this might windup (no pun intended) being oppressive in limited with both 1st strike and vigilance.

We'll get to card codes later once I have the skeleton up. You're right that it goes in that slot though.

would this be better as "Remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: Target creature can't attack or block this turn."? or would that be too good since it's repeatable? I mean as it is, it's kinda like a creature version of Change of Heart, so why not go ahead and make it a temporary Pacifism too?

Nonhybrid cards shouldn't be artifacts

This is really out of color for red.

If it came down to a fight between the two "splicers", I think the Firebreathing one is more interesting but it might clash with the Steam powered theme in red. Maybe there should be a mini-cycle, , each giving Thopters abilities and dropping a thopter or 2.

I like the card. It is good on it's own, but really rewards you for building thopters. Do note that a single trigger of this guy means 8 damage if with two thopters only, and wins games if you have but a single other creature. How about "Whenever Thopter Rider attacks with one or more flying creature, it gets +1/+1 and gains flying until end of turn"

There is a lot of red creatures producing thopters. How about having one slot for the "splicer" and another one for regular thopter at common?

Splicer : this, Laserbeam Engineer Regular : Enraged Artisan, Steamcrafter Irregular : Reform

Code CR01C

I agree for it to have Crush. This is already a value creature, no need to add hard removal too.

Should be uncommon though, simply by how situational it is.

I too prefer the version where you draw two after discarding lands. I would still play this in limited even if it was a 3U common sorcery.

True. Cheap artifact death touch should be off limit.

I think it's more the fact that tapping your opponent's lands at instant speed could potentially be annoying.

Is the nonland permanent part truly necessary? Compare Hidden Strings. Do you expect the mana-boosting land auras to be that big a thing?

I'm a little dubious. Magnetic Theft, Auriok Windwalker and Brass Squire seem to imply this is not a common type of effect (instant-speed and replicatable, that is). Plus you DO have Ainok Outfitter and Self-improving Automaton in a somewhat similar design space.

I think this should be uncommon, especially with a fairly efficient body like that.

I think this is probably alright, but maybe for one extra mana (cf. Brilliant Spectrum) at common, though. I agree Volvary's templating is an improvement.

The powerelevel on this card is fine, but I agree it's clunky.

­ is trying to have an artifact death theme, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ichor Wellspring type cards.

Given the number of hybrid cards we have (and the fact we don't plan to have nearly as many in the final set) this is one card that could easily become a true colorless artifact.

I do not expect this card to make it into the set, at very least not at this power level at common. However, I decided to throw as many cards from the thread into the file as possible simply so we don't lose any ideas.

I think so. I dislike cards with such narrow uses, This allows us to play into our themes while also making a potentially interesting card for outside the set.

I compared it to Shatter becuase it share similar design space and suggested Crush as an alternative option since we have quite a bit of Artifact Creatures we might not want dying all the time.

Besides, this'll never get used on your own stuff, the only circumstance that you might use it on your own thing is if it was going to die anyway so you could get value out of it but that isn't even possible since it's a sorcery. As it is right now, you can either: 1) 2 for 1 yourself to get a pair dinky Thopters or 2) 3 for 1 yourself and give your opponent a pair dinky Thopters. Neither is an ideal solution and both feel kinda bad. If it were an instant it'd be cute for the removal interaction but at the moment it can't do anything to mitigate removal so it just kinda falls flat.

If you're looking for a trap for newbies this current card is it, becuase it looks "ok" on paper but it probably won't work in practice.

How would you guys feel about adding a Reconnaissance clause to this card?

So, you draw 2 cards, flush all lands and draw back that many lands? Seems rather clunky. "Reveal your hand and discard all land cards revealed this way. Then draw that many cards plus two." makes a bit more sense. Even tho i'm not keen on give draw two for 3 mana without a condition. I could also think about 1U "Draw two cards, then reveal your hand and discard all land cards revealed this way."

This cannot compare to shatter; it is a split card that doubles as removal and threats. Seems fairly well costed. Not sure I get why you want it as a Crush effect though

I feel like Shatter makes this cry in a corner. I think it'd be better as Crush+Dragon Fodder with the Goblins replaced by Thopters.

Artifacts can do anything, albeit not efficiently. Revoke Existence now exists at 7, so I would not have any problem printing a "bounce permanent" at five (which is one half of Void squall and Silent departure). That is inefficient enough I think. I would value a colorless bounce permanent at around 4.4 cmc, so adding any kind of slight drawback could make it priced appropriately.

Or, we just go for inefficient but elegant "1 Bounce target permanent (land included)"

Are we sure this fits in the Colorless piece of the Color Pie? (And, yes, I see the irony of asking if Colorless fits in the Color Pie.)

The only justification I can find (castable purely for colorless) is Erratic Portal but that was in Exodus, over 17 years ago. An Arguement can be made for Crystal Shard being another example but that can also be activated with and is still ~12 years old.

In any case, are we sure we want such an iconicly blue effect (Bounce) playable in every color?

Actually this should probably be a Crush effect anyway since we don't want Red killing creatures at common too often.

I agree, I'd compare it to Ghirapur Gearcrafter, basically a 3/2 for , this could be a 2/2 + Crush for .

If we change it to an Artifact Creature, it should also reduce Equip cost that target it.

I would like the card better if there was not such a huge gap in power between hitting and missing, even if hitting is fairly easy in an artifact set. Can't it just get the thopter no matter what, regardless of destroying an artifact or not?

Just as situational as darksteel relic. Should probably cast 0, or for a 1/1

Way too strong for my taste, and is the second common to fetch a component. One too many. This, or the creature?

I'm not 100% sure but wouldn't this have wonky layer interactions with Animation Wire?

Should this be able to move Auras?