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| Mechanics | Skeleton | Common Breakdown Ref | All commons for playtesting |
Recent updates to Community Set: (Generated at 2025-12-18 01:20:55)
Hahahaha. I would never have predicted that in this community set, with the six different groups pulling in different directions, one problem we'd have would be too many (french) vanilla creatures!
That is indeed interesting. I agree that I don't think we need to act on it immediately, but we should certainly take care to avoid them in uncommon (no need for Tower Gargoyle with all the manacyclers etc).
Yay, manacycling and enlighten were designed to work well together; it's pleasing to hear that they're fun and interact well :)
I agree a random smattering of firebreathing-ish effects with no particular pattern may be best.
White got a Prodigal Sorcerer! The lance is very much an O-Ring that also gives you first strike. It's powerful. Evasion... yeah, it lacked that. Only blue got any, it seems. (will comment more on blues page) Against green it hit up into green's superior toughness. Red it walloped fairly soundly, though - it didn't have to go all-in to get its attacks through, which gave flexibility. Fairly balanced there though, reds removal is brutal in comparison.
Fair enough. For the moment, I switched Tie in Ribbons and added a tapper in place of enchantment digger. We need to check if that gave too few or too many cards with some CMC.
Huh. You seem to have moved from "This doesn't work" to "This is locked in to work the way it currently does". That's quite a shift of the goalposts.
You claimed "Manacycling doesn't do what we think it does" and that "It doesn't really make any sense to have two cards say the exact same thing, but have different reminder texts". But when I answered those points, it now seems like that wasn't actually your objection at all. Can you clarify what is the problem as you see it and what you're hoping for?
FWIW, Manacycling was originally designed to only go on multicolour cards, and to give you precisely one mana of each colour the card has. But then people wanted monocolour manacyclers, and thought it'd be less confusing to have it always give you two mana than to have the amount of mana vary according to the card's colours.
Replacing Enchantment Digger with a tapper, as suggested on white common submissions.
Feel free to suggest alternative stats for this -- I picked something simple as a talking point.
I'd still like to see a couple of evasion creatures in white, but put the tapper first as everyone seemed happy with that.
Unfortunately, that arrow looks like an underscore, but I get what you're after.
On the subject of forgetting one thing or the other, it was usually the reverse. The thing I had to remind myself was to draw a card. If I needed to play one early, it was the mana I was really looking forward to. Later on, I'd just cast the spell. I don't really see this as a big problem... people will need the card for both reasons, forget one thing or the other occasionally, and the fact that they're vascilating back and forth often will remind them what they're forgetting.
Cycling by itself can be hard to remember sometimes. I don't know how many times I've cycled at end of turn, then drew my card on my turn, effectively discarding a card for no reason.
Ah, isn't that the rub? Part of the problem stems from people throwing ideas in the air... it's great for getting a sense of what you want, but doesn't tell you what people really desire. That's fine. If someone has a real problem, I'm sure they'll pipe up.
OK, for now this ability is on (((Tie in Ribbons))), and I'm replacing this in the skeleton with something completely different.
Removed from skeleton
4W makes three tokens -> 3W returns enchantment from graveyard
Oh, cool, that sounds awesome.
We certainly had lots of ideas for gold commons we didn't use, so we can easily spice up the vanillas if we want. But let's not rush to do so, you're right, most decks will have a lot going on anyway.
I've not played with these, but when I read them, I worry I keep forgetting that you cycle into a card, not just into mana. But I hope it's ok when you look at the card. jmg, was that a problem ever with you and Tom?
We have yet to really decide what manacycling should do other than on two-colour cards (we had some good ideas, but not really tried them). I agree it should be reasonably evident.
One possibility would be to have a graphic "manacycling
→
" or whatever, which should fit on one line, so the resultant mana is always specified. (It should still always follow a rule, but it solves the problem of players not knowing what a 3-colour manacycler does, and obviously could be extended to monocolour manacyclers later).
LOL. Fair enough. I'm cautious here because the suggestion I find most interesting was my own, so I don't want to seize it unilaterily :)
Cmeister's objection isn't to the creature type, but to the fact that you can't have something with this thing's current type line "Enchantment - Construct"; the "Construct" type can only apply to Creatures or Tribals.
As for the choice of type: Cat is kinda fun, but I think Soldier would be fine. Advisor would be an intriguing type to include on some raceless Enchantment Creatures, but not really this one.
I like the symmetry of the cycle of firebreathers, but I think it probably servers our needs just as well if we have individual cards that are firebreath-y, even if they don't fit into a cycle, as long as it's not a "broken cycle" of 4. Do people agree?
If so, this can be whatever's best for red. Currently it looks like it will either be a simple firebreather, or an intimidate firebreather that's either -2/X or costs XRR (they function almost the same mechanically, so we can decide which version of the templating we prefer later). Is that a fair summary?
Construct was always just a placeholder. I suggest it be changed. I just ran out of creature classes that was appropriate for a 2/2 for
. Does Enchantment Creature - Cat work? Enchantment Creature - Soldier seems so boring... there must be something besides Wizards, Soldiers, Knights, Clerics and Archers in White...
Yeah, it's easy to keep tweaking and get carried away. I'm trying not to overcompensate :)
I agree defender isn't a great answer, but I was just emphasising it as a sort of minimum standard... Reduced P/T for now. 4/3 is still fairly good for blue common, but more plausible. (Thinks to self We need to keep checking the skeleton to make sure we don't accidentally step on other card's toes when we change size.)
Construct is not an enchantment subtype; you'll need to spell this out in the rules text.
Yes, but in those examples, the rules text was supporting the reminder text. For Amplify, for example, the rules text asks you to look at the base creature's creature type line. With Manacycling, what are we looking at? The casting cost? Do we always want manacycling to be
becomes CC or CD in the future? What if we wanted to print a white manacylcer that added GU to your pool? What if we wanted to print 
becomes GWU on an artifact?
If you removed the reminder text, a player should be able to tell you what Manacycling means on this card. As it stands right now, Manacycling does it's thing, then adds two mana to your mana pool which either matches the color of the card, if the card has only one color, or is of both colors of the card if the card has two colors. That's... um... confusing. It's confusing because it does something different based upon whether the card is multicolored or not. And it locks us into using manacycling that way, always. It would be nice to see the occasional manacycler in real Magic do a
become 
, for example.
Good call. Okay, a
Divination. Will think about it on my cycle ride to work.
It completely does work to have multiple cards with the same ability but different reminder text. See Amplify (Aven Warhawk vs Canopy Crawler vs etc), sunburst (Pentad Prism vs Etched Oracle), or suspend (creatures with suspend gain haste). We discussed this over at Senate Jurist.