[Democracy: Bottom-up Set]: Recent Activity
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Recent updates to [Democracy: Bottom-up Set]: (Generated at 2025-05-01 06:11:49)
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Recent updates to [Democracy: Bottom-up Set]: (Generated at 2025-05-01 06:11:49)
One may divide the classes even further, since each class for each of its two colors also belongs to two races. This means there are four flavors of rogues, wizards, warriors, and clerics, and two flavors of druids and soldiers. As such the descriptions for each race should be expanded upon at this time.
So by their racial differences, we can split the classes accordingly. For example
Clerics
Wizards
Rogues
Warriors
Soldiers
Druids
Based on the above descriptions, we can assign the abilities respective to each race and class. e.g. Human Rogue (pirate) can steal things when they hit an opponent. Human Wizard (water mage) may cause floods and turn lands into islands. and so on.
Since quests are going to be a major theme, they should come in different types and flavors. some like zendikar, some hidden face-down, different ways to accumulate counters, different ways for the main ability to become relevant (i.e. static, triggered, activated).
IIRC there was a theory that you need 15 cards at common for that theme to be relevant in limited. that means 3 cycles of quests, each a different variation. I suggest morph quests should be uncommon or higher. Based on suggestions here, these 3 cycles would be:
Hmm. Yeah, this should probably have less text. Even without the empty lines, it's still almost unreadable
If each class belongs to two or more colors, let's distinguish them even further as such. e.g.
Now how about racial qualities?
Are you trying to simulate a creature doing a quest? if so, a creature should be performing a task. like defeats a creature or deals damage to a player. or an activated ability wth a bonus if the right choice or result was made.
i also want to mention that there's a secret class and secret race you can unlock after you passed certain achievements.
Another attempt at a common quest, this time inspired by the Dawnglare Invoker cycle.
Again, it's not quite right, but the idea is to see if there's a quest you can build towards (a.) while doing things you want to do and (b.) without needing to separately track quest counters. I'm not sure "number of creatures" is the right idea, but something might be.
I'm not sure if these feel "questy" enough, any suggestions?
The templating needs to be fixed (probably this should work like monstrosity?).
Good point, I was mostly thinking of one cycle, if there's more than that having two cycles would be reasonable. (Or a cycle of creatures with quests, or similar.)
I don't see how far you can go with keyword tribal. Will you really have 20 hexproof creatures, 20 haste, 20 landwalkers, etc.?
i thought about race/classes as one group ally and other group enemy. but it seemed a bit too neat and possibly forcing the tribes to colors that don't happen enough. i mean, there's a measly 16 green rogues ever, 6 of which are multicolor. but i'm okay with that since rogues are underrepresented as a whole and green tracker/hunter type makes sense. also i'd prefer goblins/orcs be RB and dwarves RG. nevertheless, i can accept this way of dividing the tribes if people like everything all neat and tidy.
But beyond just assigning colors, as vitenka asked, what else do we want with tribal mechanically? as i suggested during the vote, give each tribe their own keyword or ability, which will appear on many (not all) creatures of that tribe. they can be new or active keywords. maybe races get totally new keywords and classes use old keywords and mechanics. e.g.
if that's too much, then evergreen or coreset keywords (e.g. exalted, scry, bloodthirst) are fine for classes. then push new keywords to the races.
it seems alright for one cycle to have the same reward. but i wouldn't want every common quest to pass out counters.
Oh, so... "just plain quests" then?
I somehow never noticed that the commons were all named expeditions. That mega-super-cycle, anyway. Quests of the form "On X, quest counter; on enough quest counters - ability" (maybe a sacc ability, maybe a constant ability, maybe a sigil - though that should be the rare end.)
I like the idea that the payoff is a fairly hefty thing. The payoff on Zektar Shrine Expedition, Ior Ruin Expedition etc always seemed a bit lame. The idea here is pretty similar to Quest for the Gemblades.
As in, another rare cycle like the Luminarch Ascension cycle? Fine, but if the theme isn't at common it isn't your theme. Or are you proposing a cycle or two of common Beastmaster Ascension-style quests?
It'd be a lot more natural for the same number of counters on it to be the number you distribute.
+1/+1 counters as a common quest reward is pretty fitting; every colour gets them sometimes (green would get them all put onto a single creature, probably)
Is it too much to not be able to use it? Well, hmmm. This needs three turns of build-up to go off. For which you're getting a pretty small reward. Dunno.
I'll propose "Just plain ascension"
Do we want some kind of mechanics for tribal beyond "cards that care about tribe"? I can't think of an example though - soulshift almost? "Name a creature type" cards give a nice way to save number of cards while staying tribal.
This design is still wrong, but I wanted to share some of my ideas in the hope people could improve on them.
My idea was to look for quests at common.
I decided to try reversing the zendikar quests by giving all the colours the same reward but different triggers. I wanted something which was splashy and worth having, but not so strong it would define every game (because that warps common). I decided to try "N +1/+1 counters". It was originally "a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control" but that sucked if you'd lost all your creatures by attacking.
I also considered card draw as something every colour could get, but that didn't seem quite right.
I'm not sold on this condition, but the idea was each colour would have a different common quest that any deck could achieve, but a dedicated deck could do faster.
There are a bunch of details on this card which need to be fixed, but are hopefully separate from the basic concept including:
We haven't got many responses here; should I bump up the deadline so more people can respond?
FWIW, I generally like both sets of race/class suggestions, but I don't like the MMO parody flavour. If we want to do a "generic fantasy adventure world" a bit like zendikar but more so, I think that could work, but I think we want a flavour which is strong in its own right, not just against something else.
I'm not yet sold on the MMO flavor. I'd rather see a "game world" flavor, where citizens compete for glory and affluence in hopes of ascending farther in society. Nobles view the competition of their lessers as entertainment and sponsor the games as a way to give false hope to the oppressed. I see that you've mixed and matched enemy and ally colors among the races and classes, which is interesting. I would be inclined to have all the races be ally colors and the classes be enemy, or vice versa. I like that.
Here's an alternate take on races and classes: Races
Classes
"Keyword Tribal" Possibilities
(This looks silly now that I write it out, actually.)
I don't know if I like this, but it's another possibility.
Let's see if this plan for 5 race and 6 class works. Remember this is based on popular MMO race and class. (Although Vampires are not as popular in MMOs, in our Magic style MMO, they are a major race because I needed a black race.)
Primary color in uppercase, secondary in lowercase, tertiary after dash.
RACES
CLASSES (3 fighter class, 3 mage class)
Analysis:
Note: Dual-classes are for flavor only, such as card names, major ruling body, or possible legendary figures.
Humans are white, then blue. Their classes are Soldier, Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue. Dual-class is the Paladin, which is a Cleric Soldier.
Gnomes are blue, then green. Their classes are Wizard, Rogue, Druid, and Warrior. Dual-class is the Illusionist, which is Wizard Rogue.
Vampires are black, then red. Their classes are Rogue, Cleric, Wizard, and Warrior. Dual-class is the Bloodmage, which is Rogue Cleric.
Dwarves are red, then white. Their classes are Warrior, Wizard, Cleric, and Soldier. Dual-class is the Battlemage, which is Warrior Wizard.
Elves are green, then black. Their classes are Druid, Warrior, Rogue, and Cleric. Dual class is the Ranger, which is Druid Warrior.
I voted against DFCs. I don't think it belongs in a set that already has face-down cards. There's too much overlap in concept between DFCs and morphs.
There are more issues with DFC quests. But I don't want to spend any more time typing it up since we're not doing DFC here.
separate trigger from keyword