The obvious place to start is the '... ascension" cycle of quest-counter enchantments.

Ascension has already been a full vertical cycle in all five colours, and three more on top of that. Most of the obvious combinations are already taken.

Obvious variations, then, are:
* To have Z not be a good thing (or to turn off a good thing) - so you get a bonus while on the quest, and then it gets taken away. This would be the card representing the tool; rather than the quest itself.
* To have Y vary, and be something interactive (number of players an opponent controls) - this makes it more like a struggle than a quest.
* X could have an associated cost, so it's not just that you're doing the quest, you're actively devoting the quest to something.
* There could be some penalty for failing X. If you go that route, then quests could even be used offensively - though in that case the X would have to be something that most decks CAN do; but might prefer not to.

What other stuff can be looked at?

I think it'd make sense to look in a bit more detail at all of Zendikar's quest enchantments.

There was the common cycle: Sunspring Expedition, Ior Ruin Expedition, Soul Stair Expedition, Zektar Shrine Expedition, Khalni Heart Expedition. These all accumulated quest counters on Landfall (another major theme of Zendikar), and sacrificed to do something. Note that this execution makes for the simplest gameplay: just one trigger across all common quests, and the bonus once achieved goes away.

There was the uncommon cycle: Quest for the Holy Relic, Quest for Ancient Secrets, Quest for the Gravelord, Quest for Pure Flame, Quest for the Gemblades. These each acquired quest counters under their own specific circumstances, but again sacrificed to accomplish the goal.

There was the rare cycle: Luminarch Ascension, Archmage Ascension, Bloodchief Ascension, Pyromancer Ascension, Beastmaster Ascension. These all accumulated quest counters under specific circumstances, and "turned on" once they activated, granting you a powerful effect (in some cases very powerful). They're mostly "build-around"s, needing specific cards to be useful (card-draw for Archmage, mill or discard for Bloodchief (though it works as a minor bonus in most circumstances), 4-ofs of instants or sorceries for Pyromancer). White and green are more universally applicable and should perhaps be more the kind of thing we're aiming for.

Finally, there were the Worldwake quests. Four of them, across four colours, two rares and two uncommons: Quest for Ula's Temple, Quest for the Nihil Stone, Quest for the Goblin Lord, Quest for Renewal. These were like the Ascensions, accumulating counters under specific circumstances and then "switching on" to give you some moderately powerful effect once they had sufficient counters.

The voting was clear that quest counters were something we wanted to be a major mechanic. One important thing about a set's major mechanic is it has to be on common cards. ("If your theme's not at common, it's not your theme.") So we need to give some consideration to common mechanics that can use quest counters.

This in turn means we need to find a way to keep complexity down while keeping interest up. For example, we could make it that all the commons have one single trigger (like Zendikar's common quests all triggering on landfall). Assuming landfall isn't going to be a major mechanic in this set, we could look at the other proposed themes in Vote 2 - Results!.

Some of them that leap out to me:

• Tribal triggers. If a majority of the creatures were one of 5 races and one of 5 classes, then all the common quests could trigger on a creature of an appropriate type entering the battlefield.
• Hybrid. If anyone else wants to do a hybrid set, we could make the common white quests trigger off, say, white creatures entering the battlefield, which would work with , , etc. Or some/all of the quests could be hybrid themselves, and watch for creatures of either of their colours.

Good point. I'd also like to see if we can't find a way to make quests a lot simpler so that they're more common-suitable.

I mean; can you imagine trying to put a quest on a creature right now?

One obvious thing that would make them a lot simpler would be for Y to be one - that removes half the language right there, the rules text becomes "Do something, then something good happens to you". It also means the rewards would want to be proportionally smaller (thus more common-suitable)

The hard part would be making it feel like a quest. These small things would be more like a single step in a quest. But they could easily play into that - "Summon an elf to your side - receive bacon"

And... how abut morph as the combination?

The reward for the quest is... your 2/2 creature just became a spell effect, or a mighty creature.

Morph as the combination? What do you mean? That when you fulfill a Quest you get to morph something for free? Sounds like a single card idea, not something we'd want to warp the mechanic around.
I think some Quests that only get a single quest counter and remove that single counter without sacrificing might be interesting, but then they don't feel much like Quests, do they?

No - I mean.. the quest is trying to unmorph the card.

So It's something like: "morph: gain 5 life in a single turn" (good thing or just a stompy creature)

Are they sufficiently questlike? Maybe not. They do have the advantage of tying a couple of major themes together though.

Or as not-morphs, just plain: "When you gain 5 life in a turn, you may sacrifice ~. If you do (good thing)"

Less questy (being only a single stage) but far fewer words, so that they can live at common, and be a part of a creature or another spell.

Another alternative - level up creatures; where levelling them up is a quest-challenge, rather than a mana cost.

FWIW, I really liked the design of Ordeal of Nylea cycle, which are quests thematically, even though they're not called that like in Zendikar.

I like that they do something as they go along, but winning is still exciting. Is there any way of doing a simpler version of that that could work at common, or another variant that has the "quest" theme, but isn't exactly the same as the zendicar block quests?

Good point - are these quests you go on, or that your creatures go on?

Which reminds me, were MaRo involved in this set, he'd be shouting at us about now for not deciding on the emotional intent :)

I think you could argue for either; creatures going on quests would be represented somewhat differently I would think (think either Level Up or exile then return with counters on it). I think this is more geared towards quests which you the planeswalker are on.

Edit: Of course there's the Ordeal cycle as well, as pointed out above.

You could always put Level Up on enchantments (or other non-creatures), with a trigger to level instead of mana cost.

FWIW what I liked about luck counters was:

• Different quests can give you luck counters into a common pool, so quests interact with each other in a simple way
• Many quests can have a common end-condition and reward, so you only have to remember the trigger for each card, not the reward too.
• With an in-built reward (get to 10/20, win the game), you have a reason to play quests, which makes it more feasible to play cards that spend luck counters for other effects.

Is there any way of achieving the same aim?

Eg. All quests (or all common quests) have a form of "whenever you do [mildly difficult thing], draw a card"
Eg. Quests have "remove N quest counters from permanents you control" rather than just this one

?

Level up seems okay, but it uses level counters instead of quest counters. Is that fine everybody?

X as a cost could work. I'm thinking more like cumulative upkeep so it triggers once a turn, but the cost is not cumulative (i.e. it's the same cost every turn.). I can think of two varieties. A) You have to pay N times. If you do, you get the bonus and it sticks around. B) You get the bonus as long as you pay the cost. otherwise, sacrifice it.

Interaction with other major themes--Morph, control matters: Probably the next best trigger after landfall is when a creature comes under your control. This works with playing your own creatures or gaining control of someone else's creature.

Interaction with minor themes--tribal, hybrid, traps: This is more open-ended. But they probably should be uncommon or higher. This could push players toward certain tribes or colors. Triggers can be almost anything: play a tribal card, control a tribal card, sacrifice one, attack with one, flip over one, etc.

Hidden Quests, with Morph: These are like hidden agendas that only you know about. That's the original intent of Morph, to surprise the opponent. The morph cost is usually a trigger from an opponent's action. For instance, when an opponent discards, you may turn this face up. Of course you can play the Quest face up per normal as an enchantment spell. So consider some bonus when it turns face up as opposed to casting normally.

Since quests are going to be a major theme, they should come in different types and flavors. some like zendikar, some hidden face-down, different ways to accumulate counters, different ways for the main ability to become relevant (i.e. static, triggered, activated).

IIRC there was a theory that you need 15 cards at common for that theme to be relevant in limited. that means 3 cycles of quests, each a different variation. I suggest morph quests should be uncommon or higher. Based on suggestions here, these 3 cycles would be:

• Zendikar style expeditions that get counters when a land comes into play, but without "landfall" ability word. Main effect is activated ability by sacrificing the quest. e.g. Ior Ruin Expedition
• Completion style that get counters when your creature defeats an opponent's creature. Main effect is immediate trigger upon completion. e.g. Kill Three Rats
• Different ways to get quest counters, but the main effects are all the same. Main effect is activated ability by sacrificing the quest. e.g. Quest for the opponent's face