Misc Design for future sets.: Recent Activity
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Recent updates to Misc Design for future sets.: (Generated at 2025-11-17 21:09:11)
I feel it's narrow enough to be common. But then I can see it being uncommon because of color pie issues.
Ok first I would like to thank dude1818 for pointing his points about the color pie and backing them with sources. Please feel free to comment on any other of my cards. I am always open to helpful criticism.
Second I am grateful for the full in depth discussion about the pie.
Third I would like to point out that jmgariepy was the first to not only point out issues with the card but make a suggestion as to how to fix it.
That said how does everyone like the card now?
Interesting that this little card got this much discussion.
jmgarepy's comment about our perceptions of ritual power and the probable lack of power with this card is pretty insightful imo.
I see dude1818's points and the links to MaRo's blogatog are much appreciated. I read through a lot of them and, while convincing, I couldn't help feel like MaRo was... missing something. Not in his concern for balance and maintaining the health of the game, I understand and applaud him for that. But something more insidious may be going unnoticed.
MaRo talks about color bleeding and the difference between bending and breaking, breaking which he describes as "giving a color something that fills in its weakness." (I'm paraphrasing.) But what happens when the number of multicolor producing lands hits critical mass? When the line between colors becomes blurred, not because of WotC intentionally or unintentionally breaking the color pie, but because it has been made irrelevant by the very design choices seeking to preserve it?
Any weakness a particular color might have suffered from is quickly remedied by running a slew of nonbasics and 'splashing' whatever you need. So what happens to the game when three, four, and five color decks become the norm? (which is already underway, mind you) What happens when the game becomes bloated with redundant effects? How many ways can they say 'deal n damage a target' or 'fetch some land' or 'kill that thing'? How many different mechanics can they possibly come up with? What if, despite all their efforts to maintain the life of the game, they're really only putting it on life support, which is to say, prolonging the inevitable...
No, both cards violate the color pie. Hornet Queen sees play in Standard and is just as big a violation. MaRo dislikes both. Read these.
@dude1818 So you mixed up Hornet Queen with Hornet Sting? in your defense of the pie?
Having it be a benny for being attacked does put that squarely white now. And it's a nice thing for white to have in its toolbox, because it unlocks so many other combat tricks.
So yeah; I can see this variation. Power wise - It's potentially quite good, but situational enough now that it's probably ok.
No, Hornet Queen hasn't ruined the game (though it hurts the relevancy of dragons in Fate Reforged). Neither did Seat of the Synod, or Disciple of the Vaults, or Skullclamp, or Arcbound Ravager, or Aether Vial. But just like Mirrodin block, which caused the second largest exodus of players from the game, continuing to print cards that individually break the color pie for flavor reasons will lead to the game lose the distinction between colors, which will ruin the game. If every color can access any ability, what's the point of even having a color system? There's no point in running different colors if each color loses its weaknesses, which harms the game by making every deck uniform, indistinguishable, and bland.
What a coincidence, someone just asked MaRo the difference between bending and breaking.
@ dude1818 I highly doubt Hornet Queen ruined the game. Mark also did two articles on "Trials of the color pie" covering when things can do things out of pie. Form of the Dragon was covered largely as breaking the pie for flavor reasons. I will agree that Breaking the pie all over the place is sure to ruin the game but a few minor breaks spaced far apart won't.
@jmgarepy After reading your well thought/written out critique I agree that this needs to be more white in how it's implemented. how about caring how many creatures are attacking you? Since white does care about that and would limit you to getting mana to use in combat tricks for protecting yourself?
Something like.... Cast ~ only if three or more creatures are attacking you?
And yes for the above to work i'd change the card to an instant
I agree that the flavor on Pray is strong. But, to be fair, this could be reflavored for any color... there's no specific reason why this couldn't require 3 Merfolk and have a name like "Study". But I don't want to argue color pie... it's not really my thing.
What I see here, however, is a very underpowered card masquerading as a fair card. We're so used to thinking of Dark Ritual as insanely powerful, that we tend to forget it isn't a very good spell without a fast or abusive combo deck to use it on. And I kind of doubt you'll find too many OP combo decks that involve the concept "First, put three clerics in play." But, I admit, I dig the numbers. And not believing such and such a deck could exist doesn't mean it isn't possible.
As for giving a one shot mana boost in white (ignoring the fact that that's what's breaking the color pie, for the sake of this conversation) I think the best argument you can use is "White is trying to balance the playing field." Maybe a White Ritual which you can only use if your opponent controls more land than you. Something like this perhaps?:
Vorthos' Justification
to you mana pool equal to the difference.
Instant
Compare the number of lands you control with the number of lands target opponent controls. If you control fewer lands, add
I mean, still gonna get the complaints. But at least with this card you're playing white 'the right way' to get that advantage. Pray just asks you to put a lot of creatures on the table. Every color wants to do that.
Mark Rosewater says that Hornet Queen violates the color pie and should not have been printed. As head designer and most knowledgeable person about the color pie, his word should count for something. Yes you can break the color pie, but only if you want to ruin the game.
Quoting Horent Queen shows that the color pie can in fact be broken for flavor. It shouldn't most of the time, but it's not impossible. And "bad cards" tend to be someones opinion of the card in question. I personally think that the flavor of queen is spot on, and getting 5 deathouch flying creatures for 7 mana is a great deal. Sure a lot of people don't like it but different cards are made to please different player types.
As for (((pray))) I think that while it is a large stretch ( more than say a green version that wants you to have a druid), I think that it would be just fine in the right setting. Maybe for a Cleric based Commander deck, or a heavy tribal set as part of a cycle.
Is there a better way that would work for giving a small one shot mana boost to White?
Color pie can't be broken for flavor. That leads to bad cards like Hornet Queen. You can bend it a little, but that's it.
Iiinteresting. It manages to avoid the problem of a lot of Dark Ritual variants by not working on turn 1. It's rather less effective than Brightstone Ritual, which at least allowed you to dream big. But this is squarely a red effect now.
I'll up the cost of the 4/4 side. For it to truely be One Dozen Eyes I'd have to give it fuse. But yeah.
Fixing formatting now.
Color pie can be broken rarely for the right flavor. And given how many things have changed from their starting color since Dark Ritual days I think this is a perfect card.
Yeah you're right it could. Fixing now.
Examined in a vacuum, I really this. I think it could all be on one line tho, formatting purposes.