Would it help if it read "Choose one or both - return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand; and/or return target black creature card from your graveyard to your hand."?
Probably not. How about the slightly-functionally-different "Choose one - return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand; or return two target black creature cards from your graveyard to your hand."?
I believe the rules would support this card without "up to", since the counters aren't targeted. However, it would be clearer with.
Interestingly, that changes the card's functionality, in that you could opt to move only 3 counters from a 5-counter permanent. Can't see it happening often, though.
My idea was to increase cards that fed off of each other, but not increase interaction that much. Cards like Veteran Armorsmith and Soul Warden are poster-children for this interplay.
Admittedly, it's impossible for the cards to interact with each other and not raise the complexity bar in the process. IMHO, though, raising the complexity bar in only one color decreases the complexity bar in the entire game. White become 'the complex common color', reducing the number of interactions in all the other colors because they'd be 'breaking the color pie'. Meanwhile, since you pushed all the complexity in one color, players who like plankton complexity will gravitate towards it, while those who do not will naturally move away from it. Win-Win.
Interesting argument. Not sure how white's commons should look under that philosophy, though, given their "NWO" attempts to reduce on-board complexity at common. Especially given most sets want a vanilla in most colours.
You know, during the GDS2, I argued for just black to get better small creatures. But I wasn't talking about power creep... I just thought that black, the color of individual initiative, should have a pool of individually strong creatures, while white, the color of relying on your society, should have a pool of cheap creatures that worked well in synergy with each other. MaRo cited my argument as being the most common argument for the color-pie swap question, (which surprised me. I thought I was being unique.) Two years later, Walking Corpse pops up. So I think you might have me to blame for all this...
I would play Tavern Swindler in limited in a heartbeat. The thing is, many players think that she's worse than a vanilla 2/2.
My views are that black shouldn't get a 2/2 for . A zombie in Innistrad is okay, but the proper place in black is {1.5} for those stats. Unfortunately, {1.5} has started rounding to instead of or .
Yes, you're right; it's too strong. But would plainly be too weak. I don't especially want to reprint Raise the Alarm... so I'm feeling a bit stuck for options.
I suppose "move to uncommon and come up with a new card" is one.
White continues to get 2/1s for (Elite Vanguard, Dryad Militant), but so far always at uncommon. I note that this is more aggressive than Raise the Alarm, just less ambush-y.
"Counters" is an excellent idea. I shall change it.
For the benefit of Vitenka, though, remember that this set has Accumulate as a mechanic - there are a number of creatures that gain charge counters every upkeep.
I don't see why this can't just say 'counters'. I would think that, while flavor is important, it doesn't hold a candle to utility. If this card dealt extra damage to creatures with +1/+1 counters, and whatnot, it would excite a lot of players. Deals extra damage to creatures with charge counters only? A very small segment of Vorthos will thank you. I'd rather please the masses.
I thought charge counters were the "non-creature artifact" equivalent of +1/+1 counters? Makes this sound like an even less impressive version of Electrostatic Bolt.
Changed again, to allow Canyon Minotaur and Olmerand Brawler breathing room. 4/2 for has been done as vanilla, but not for a while, and it seems like it could bear an ability on top.
Would it help if it read "Choose one or both - return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand; and/or return target black creature card from your graveyard to your hand."?
Probably not. How about the slightly-functionally-different "Choose one - return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand; or return two target black creature cards from your graveyard to your hand."?
I believe the rules would support this card without "up to", since the counters aren't targeted. However, it would be clearer with.
Interestingly, that changes the card's functionality, in that you could opt to move only 3 counters from a 5-counter permanent. Can't see it happening often, though.
My idea was to increase cards that fed off of each other, but not increase interaction that much. Cards like Veteran Armorsmith and Soul Warden are poster-children for this interplay.
Admittedly, it's impossible for the cards to interact with each other and not raise the complexity bar in the process. IMHO, though, raising the complexity bar in only one color decreases the complexity bar in the entire game. White become 'the complex common color', reducing the number of interactions in all the other colors because they'd be 'breaking the color pie'. Meanwhile, since you pushed all the complexity in one color, players who like plankton complexity will gravitate towards it, while those who do not will naturally move away from it. Win-Win.
Interesting argument. Not sure how white's commons should look under that philosophy, though, given their "NWO" attempts to reduce on-board complexity at common. Especially given most sets want a vanilla in most colours.
You know, during the GDS2, I argued for just black to get better small creatures. But I wasn't talking about power creep... I just thought that black, the color of individual initiative, should have a pool of individually strong creatures, while white, the color of relying on your society, should have a pool of cheap creatures that worked well in synergy with each other. MaRo cited my argument as being the most common argument for the color-pie swap question, (which surprised me. I thought I was being unique.) Two years later, Walking Corpse pops up. So I think you might have me to blame for all this...
I would play Tavern Swindler in limited in a heartbeat. The thing is, many players think that she's worse than a vanilla 2/2.
My views are that black shouldn't get a 2/2 for
. A zombie in Innistrad is okay, but the proper place in black is {1.5}
for those stats. Unfortunately, {1.5} has started rounding to 
instead of 
or 
.
There's Tavern Swindler, too, which has an... upside.
Made grizzly. Was
Mm, not very common, is it? It's not even part of a cycle. Right, that's up for an edit.
Yes, you're right; it's too strong. But
would plainly be too weak. I don't especially want to reprint Raise the Alarm... so I'm feeling a bit stuck for options.
I suppose "move to uncommon and come up with a new card" is one.
Should this say "up to"? Or can you only cast it if the opponent has five counters?
(I love the idea of the version that can steal any kind of counter, but I fear it's probably uncommon.)
Ah, power creep. Walking Corpse inaugurated the black Grizzly Bear, and Gutter Skulk solidified the precedent.
Looking at this again, the wording looks uncomfortably fiddly.
White continues to get 2/1s for
(Elite Vanguard, Dryad Militant), but so far always at uncommon. I note that this is more aggressive than Raise the Alarm, just less ambush-y.
"Counters" is an excellent idea. I shall change it.
For the benefit of Vitenka, though, remember that this set has Accumulate as a mechanic - there are a number of creatures that gain charge counters every upkeep.
I don't see why this can't just say 'counters'. I would think that, while flavor is important, it doesn't hold a candle to utility. If this card dealt extra damage to creatures with +1/+1 counters, and whatnot, it would excite a lot of players. Deals extra damage to creatures with charge counters only? A very small segment of Vorthos will thank you. I'd rather please the masses.
I thought charge counters were the "non-creature artifact" equivalent of +1/+1 counters? Makes this sound like an even less impressive version of Electrostatic Bolt.
Changed again, to allow Canyon Minotaur and Olmerand Brawler breathing room. 4/2 for
has been done as vanilla, but not for a while, and it seems like it could bear an ability on top.