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CardName: Mind Cave Cost: Type: Land Pow/Tgh: / Rules Text: When Mind Cave enters the battlefield, it does so tapped unless you have more cards in hand than each other player. {T}:Add {UR} to your mana pool. Flavour Text: Set/Rarity: Community Mashup Set Rare

Mind Cave
 
 R 
Land
When Mind Cave enters the battlefield, it does so tapped unless you have more cards in hand than each other player.
{t}:Add {u/r} to your mana pool.
Updated on 17 Apr 2013 by Vitenka

History: [-]

2013-04-17 15:36:58: Vitenka created the card Mind Cave

­Mountain Cave + Keeper of the Mind

Discard a card to get a proper dual land, draw a card if you don't have the most cards. Nice tension there.

Could do an ETB tapped land, that untaps if you have fewest cards; but that's kinda too good when going first in a play-or-draw match.

Howsabout hellbent? That's pretty minimal. Probably too minimal.

Ah; got it - we'll flip it the other way. If you've got MORE cards, AFTER dropping a land, then is when you need the boost.

2013-04-17 16:25:59: Vitenka edited Mind Cave:

clarify, not "more than them all put together"

Interesting templating choice in the first ability. I do like the use of {u/r}, however.

You can't add {u/r} to your mana pool.

If you would add {u/r} to your add mana pool, you choose {u} or {r}.

>Rule 106.8. If an effect would add mana represented by a hybrid mana symbol to a player’s mana pool, that player chooses one half of that symbol. If a colored half is chosen, one mana of that color is added to that player’s mana pool. If a colorless half is chosen, an amount of colorless mana represented by that half’s number is added to that player’s mana pool.

So Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt-nyah.

I admit, wizards never template like that; but they shoulda done. (And hey, I resisted mixing in the old: {t}:{r} way)

I think the first ability is being compared with the more normal form on Glacial Fortress's cycle and Razorverge Thicket's cycle. The hybrid mana does work because of strange things like Elemental Resonance, and I actually wouldn't be surprised to see it templated that way eventually. Graven Cairns would look tidier that way :)

Dude1818, that rule exists because of Elemental Resonance and things like it, as Alex has pointed out. I'm pretty sure I remember it being called on in the GDS or GDS2 that cards don't add hybrid mana to mana pools on purpose, and since I don't know exactly where to find that, here is something close to official on that.

the similar case is colorless mana. they used to differentiate between colorless mana and generic mana. later they unified them. e.g. cards used to say "add one colorless mana", now they say "add {1}"

Well. Sort of. It's more like they use the same symbol for both of them.

It's just one more thing to teach. If the core set doesn't include hybrid mana costs, then Magic, in general, won't add hybrid mana. I agree, I'd prefer to add {r/g}, and most other people that design here would prefer it... but I've taught enough new people enough games to know that there's a point where too much symbology is a terrible, terrible thing. (See also: Every board game coming out of Poland. WTH Poland?)

Or, in other words, for {r/g} to be on a land in a non-hybrid set, you'd have to follow it up with reminder text anyhow (Choose either Red or Green mana and add it to your mana pool). It doesn't simplify anything, and it adds more words.

But, otherwise, yes, I find it more aesthetically appealing this way.

Well, symbols are probably better than having the game be in Polish :)

I guess I kinda treat all sets as hybrid since hybrid now exists (and I don't care about formats) but you're right about the cognitive load.

As a pure acceleration land; how's the downside work?

It's no more accelerant than Mountain. I think the evidence from Glacial Fortress, Seachrome Coast and Hallowed Fountain is that a straight dual land can have "ETBT unless something", and it doesn't much matter what the "something" is.

One of the problems with giving dual lands "{t}: Add {g/u}" is what you should do with tri-color duals like Arcane Sanctum. I'm not one of jmgariepy's "most other people," either. I prefer to see "{t}: Add {w} or {u}" over "{t}: Add {w/u}."

I've notice that the wisdom mechanics are easier if you just call out a specific number... like 5 cards in hand... and stuck to it. Especially when dealing with utility cards. The funny thing about calling a number is that this would most likely be untapped on rounds 1 and 2, but come into play tapped later... that's valuable space, since the majority of ETBT lands do the opposite.

This card does have manners, though, and at least only checks once.

Yeah - it really does need to be "I'm behind the curve" not "It's too damn early" to not be broken. A fixed number and "Fewer than" might be interesting though; really encourage those early "throw everything away" strategies.

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