[Theory] Color Pie Discussion

[Theory] Color Pie Discussion by Tahazzar

19 cards in Multiverse

12 commons, 5 uncommons, 2 rares

4 white, 3 blue, 2 black, 6 red,
1 green, 2 multicolour, 1 artifact

150 comments total

Topics about various possible color pie expansion and changes.

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Revitalizes a forgotten effect in Blue

Delusion N (When this enters you gain N life until it leaves the battlefield.)
last 2018-08-07 17:35:15 by Vitenka
Reduces Blue's Cloning Abilities
{g} would copy creatures you control.

{u} would only copy creatures (and other permanents) that you don't control.
last 2018-06-24 18:06:10 by Sorrow
last 2018-06-17 21:24:34 by amuseum
Expands Red's Pie
Restricted by? —
• sorcery speed
"you don't control (defending player controls)"
"untapped creature"
tapped creature"
• other?
last 2018-02-22 07:48:08 by Tahazzar
Creature – Giant Warrior
{2}, {t}, Return two lands you control to its owner's hands: Landeating Giant deals 5 damage to any target.
1 comment
2018-02-22 02:03:28 by amuseum

Recent comments: (all recent activity)
On Black: Temporary Life:

Oh; now THAT works. Make it a card with life on it that you can pay towards costs; but lose that life when it leaves play.

On Black: Temporary Life:

I'm not sure I get the arguments against this. Sure, life gain can drag a game along, but does that mean any life gain effects are unacceptable all of a sudden? Should lifelink be shunned now? Surely this is then the 'better' variant of life gain since the isn't just given to you, but can be counter played by removing these life giving / 'maintaining' permanents (more interaction).

That aside, this would play well into {b}'s temptation themes and could/would probably lure even newer players to use those life points as resources.

On Green: Cloning Your Stuff:

I don't have much for discussion right now, but I did try and design a few green clone cards. Niche Filler, Mighty Packmate, Like Rabbits, Pup/Cub, and Brutal Packmate.

The first four were all designs I felt tied to animals and nature, with the last being mechanical (which I mention should probably be another color).

On Green: Cloning Your Stuff:

I don't buy there being proper variants in {b/r}. Maybe something with a tribal team etched onto them such as "Zombies you control ETB as a copy of ~" but otherwise - naaah man. {b/r} are the rebellious colors about individuality. I don't see it being thematically correct for them to conform and become part of the faceless mass.

Some kind of curse or whatnot where opponents' creatures ETB as a certain Zombie or whatever could mayhaps work.

On Green: Cloning Your Stuff:

Re: Coronation Malach

I don't know whether I got that across because I was talking about so many things in my lastz comment, but I think Coronation Malach and Essence of the Wild are equally valid - they just use similar mechanics to get each an in-color outcome.

I would feel worse if green had flying or white a big groundpounder, but as long as the base-template is in-color you could probably have a black Demon or Zombie lord expand upon the mechanic as well.

On Green: Cloning Your Stuff:

Yeah, discussing where in the current color pie setting a individual creature's p/t to some dynamic value is worthy of another discussion. I think it's truly one of those 'purple' effects that has no place at the moment. Biomass Mutation is one another card doing the thing Mirror Entity does, but it too is a mass p/t setting effect.

I recall seeing the idea of Essence of the Wild first on a Fumar's card at MTG Salvation as a white card:

Coronation Malach {5}{w}{w}{w}
Creature - Angel (M)
Each other nonland permanent you control is a copy of ~.
When dawn arrives, there will be a crown for each head.

To me this kind of assimilation and 'copying perfection' seems like it should be a {w} thing - not {g} since nature likes its diversity. {g} is quite predicated on that hunter & prey cycle (survival of the fittest - life and death) among other things.

Hmm, in the article that I link to in the OP, I was thinking {w} could copy your own artifacts (mass production) while {u} could copy your opponents' stuff (reverse engineering).

On enchantments I'm not so sure...

On Green: Cloning Your Stuff:

I don't think mixing discussion about p/t setting effects with copying effects just because both are flavored as shapeshifting is fruitful. They are often far closer to +X/+X and -X/-X effects.

Maybe that's an entire different topic.

Now Essence of the Wild does make a good impression impression of something similar why Mirror Entity should be green: When it comes to X costs you take into account the most favorable outcomes and while I expect it can be explained as "turning all your creatures 0/0 and then repeated Charge would do something similar" the ability has a tendency towards Overrun. In essence it is a bend, because changelings explored a lot of less-used design space - and its own can of worms/wurms.

­Mirror-Sigil Sergeant, Permeating Mass add interesting questions. The first would seem far more green (though token copies fit white - and maybe any color - more than outright clones); while the second could be blue-tinged, though it is somewhat expicable based on green getting deathtouch.

Everything that just expresses itself onto other things is basically the color itself is; I imagine some keyword that allowed creating copies of itself could go into any color - myriad style - even if the copy overwrites your other creature - but overwriting an opponent's creature? While there are existing examples, I think blue/black should be at the core of that - for the same reason I would say that about offensive p/t setting. Again its own can of worms.

What does this say about Body Double though? That would be black. What about Copy Enchantment? Sculpting Steel? Copy effects have a wider range than just your own creature permanents.

On Green: Cloning Your Stuff:

I assumed Mirror Entity was partly because it applied to everything, white gets mass effects more often than other colours.

On Green: Cloning Your Stuff:

Becoming copy of another you control is certainly something {g}'s can do. How/does that relate to Mirror Entity? Going with that train of though, do we morph into Ursapine ie. into shade pumps. Mirror Entity's effect is rarely used anywhere. It's in a sense an untapped space that hasn't been used and as such, it made sense in purple (sixth color) - even in flavor as the color had a infinity-nothingness theme ({0} & {x}). This is kind of off-topic but what do you guys think of Infinomancer? How about Emptiness?

On Green: Cloning Your Stuff:

Well, Gift of Tusks overlaps with Song of the Dryads when it comes to replacing Beast Within. Definitely much meat on that topic.

But since Skinshifter was mentioned, wouldn't that also be a viable flavor for a clone effect?

"{g}: ~ becomes a copy of target Beast you control until end of turn."


I recall Pyrulea had (at some point, maybe still) a rare variant on the simple mana dude that could become a copy of a land you control until end of turn.

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