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Recent updates to Multiverse Design Challenge: (Generated at 2025-05-17 06:24:29)
It was an idea for 'something that Terrains do'. I don't really think I was the best execution, either... more me throwing an idea out there. I think it's a possibility. I do like how the terrains change over time... but I got to admit there's bound to be a better way to do it.
you know that reminder text didn't always exist, right? also keywords can exist without reminder text.
So you're saying that Roving would be a feature of ALL terrains? How does it make mechanical or flavorful sense? Is it at all grokkable without reminder text, as planeswalkers are?
transform didnt have reminder text.
another effect that should be an enchantment. if terrain is supposed affect combat, whats with these terrains with noncombat abilities? it's like lands that dont tap for mana.
I think common terrains do indeed need reminder text. I don't think I like the idea of Roving and "stages" of terrain... it sounds like evolving Pokémon.
I think Terrains probably need reminder text because they'll hopefully appear at common, not just mythic rare. But I'm hoping that maybe they'll have a different card frame that conveys what's going on.
However, I think it's ok to explore different abilities even if they don't fit the usual templating guidelines -- if one of the abilities seems "just right", then we may be able to find a card frame that conveys some of the rules (like level up), or decide it's obvious enough even if the reminder text isn't complete, or decide it's ok if terrains are uncommon or rare only.
The reminder text can't fit on Planeswalkers. Do you think they need to change?
The point is that this is a different card type with a different set of rules required for them. I only mentioned the fact that I had reminder text to point out how little text was needed to explain what the card did. I'm aware that Planeswalkers don't have keywords that do something... but auras do. "Enchant Creature" never gets the full reminder text, either.
If the reminder text for your ability can't fit on the card, then the ability needs to change.
See Challenge # 083.
Added Edges of Fyndhorn, Fyndhorn Training Grounds and Fyndhorn Pine Palace. Working with the idea of terrains that move over time, to give a sense of dynamic action.
For Challenge # 084. For an explanation of Roving, see Edges of Fyndhorn.
For Challenge # 084. For an explanation of Roving, see Edges of Fyndhorn.
Also, the reminder text for Roving would change at this location, since it would tell you to fetch a Stage Three Terrain.
For Challenge # 084. Roving is another attempt to make the Terrains more dynamic. I originally had the reminder text on the card, but it ran too long to be feasable on a large number of cards. I guess it's just something you'd have to look up, or ask someone (like how do Planeswalkers work?). The reminder text read like this:
(~ enters the battlefield with 3 time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, or whenever combat damage is dealt to you or a Planeswalker you control at this location, remove a time counter from ~. When the last time counter is removed, sacrifice it, and put a green Terrain-Second Stage from outside the game onto the battlefield under your control.)
The idea was to have terrains that encouraged opponents to make choices. You can let your opponent have this ability, or force through, and drive through the second and third stages of terrain until you bled the terrains out.
Yes, I did. Thank you Alex. Editing.
I did think of having the terrain gain the text of the Palisade. Unfortunately, though, it would gain 'Moveable' in the process, and that would cause no end of headache. I could say that it gains all the text except for moveable... but really, is that an easier ability to process? It just seemed easier to say "Go through one, then the other". Besides, I get the impression you can do more stuff if you can do it in stages... though, I admit, I don't know what said imaginary stuff is...
But then this would be an Aura with Enchant Terrain rather than a terrain itself. This being a terrain itself means that it's meant to get all the rules for terrains as discussed on Challenge # 084.
BTW, jmg, is this meant to say "Blocking creatures you control in Wooden Palisade have first strike"?
It could just make the terrain it's attached to get the effects of the feature instead of having to go through the terrain.
add attach cost inside reminder text
And I believe Jack specifically intended this challenge to be a collaborative exercise in seeing what works with terrains and what doesn't; which rules are natural and intuitive and which aren't; which effects pull towards one set of rules and which effects pull towards another.
Added Wooden Palisade.
The problem, amuseum, isn't that you're wrong. In fact, I think you are very right to demand more than just a minor new way to look at enchantments. The problem is that very few ideas spring fully formed, like Athena from the head of Zeus. Most ideas evolve from other ideas. What would Terrains look like by the time they are fully developed? I don't know, but the process to get there would take a long time, and require multiple playtests, and a lot of small steps and set backs to get to.
For example, I don't think many people would complain that the Planeswalker types don't add a lot of value to the game. But when Planeswalkers were first concepted, they didn't look much different than enchantments themselves. Later, they took form with loyalty counters, but they ran on automatic... they didn't feel organic enough to be called their own thing. A lot of tinkering later, and they do, now, look and feel very different than the rest of the cards in the game.
The cards can't stay in their simplest execution, since we already have two card types that represent the simplest execution of a permanent (artifacts and enchantments). But I'm also pretty sure they need to start from their simplest execution, so that designers can build around them, and branch out. Personally, I think "creatures must choose one terrain and attack through that" isn't good enough, either. But I'm willing to design cards with that premise until the details of what the necessary next step is is hammered out.
ok so theyre enchantments with some rules baggage, like equipments are to artifacts.
i just dont see anything special about these rules that improve Magic combat. which btw being so generic is in itself an obstacle for new card types.
there are many such obstacles for new card types. eg how can it be otherwise interacted or removed? planeswalkers can be attacked. tribal is really a supertype in disguise.
how does it interact with existing cards? planeswalkers have a special for redirecting damage to a player.
by all means try to devise a new card type that brings Magic to another level, which may or may not resemble sites in shadowfist or terrain in guardians or ice in netrunner. however, this version is not it. mainly because other games revolve around this card type, so mechanics and flavor are tied together. magic doesnt ,in facts avoids superfluous card types used during combat. new sop like nwo and being newbie friendly not withstanding.
For Challenge # 084. This is spinning off the conversation in Ambush Grounds. Over there, I was talking about the idea of players being able to link their terrains onto each other's. So that if you attack through your Elysian Fields, you would always end up at the Dread Marshes, and vice versa. I still like that idea, but I figured I'd try a compromise with 'Moveable', that kept the same concept, but still matched it to the current rules for Terrain.
It has problems, though. Specifically, I wanted to write "Only one Feature can be attached to one Terrain at a time" but figured I would only make the problem worse.