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CardName: Naigong Fallsdiver Cost: 2u Type: Creature - Merfolk Wizard Pow/Tgh: 2/3 Rules Text: When Naigong Fallsdiver attacks, if you control a Mountain, it gets +1/+0 and gains flying until end of turn. Flavour Text: Set/Rarity: Kin Kwan 乾坤 Uncommon

Naigong Fallsdiver
{2}{u}
 
 U 
Creature – Merfolk Wizard
When Naigong Fallsdiver attacks, if you control a Mountain, it gets +1/+0 and gains flying until end of turn.
2/3
Updated on 01 Dec 2013 by amuseum

Code: UU06

Active?: true

History: [-]

2013-09-03 15:49:43: amuseum created the card Naigong Fallsdiver
2013-09-03 15:57:22: amuseum edited Naigong Fallsdiver

That's pretty odd. A color that normally gets flying is being granted flying by pairing with a color that rarely gets flying?

Mm... but it's very flavorful... the idea of a guy needing to jump off a mountain to get any height. Works for me.

I've no problem with that part; kinda an unusual P/T for a blue creature though. Which helps with the red feeling.

I'd be tempted to give this a red colour splot, just to further hint this is actually a red creature hiding out with a blue casting cost for reasons of its own :)

Mmm, I'm okay with "colour A uses colour B to get a colour A ability" from time to time, but I'm not keen on a 3/2 for {2}{u}.

yep he's the second 3/2 for {2}{u} in magic history. he's cool like that. also cf. Wasp Lancer and Sedraxis Specter. he's fair for an uncommon.

You can't really compare this to those two, since they both require triple color commitment.

Indeed. I'd be fine with a 3/2 for {u}{u}{u}, but I don't like a 3/2 for {2}{u}.

2013-09-05 00:59:09: amuseum edited Naigong Fallsdiver:

triple color commitment yeah and they get flying permanently due to that. specter even gets two other strong abilities. for the same CC. moreover, were they even played? specter i heard a little bit. basically i'm not adverse to blue getting good vanillas with decent P/T to mana cost ratio once in a while. it's barely better than a gray ogre. as a matter of fact, blue creatures getting the shaft is a ridiculous notion altogether. i despise the fact that the proportion of playable blue creatures is ridiculously low. fact is, 99% blue creatures are extremely weak, narrow, uninteresting, and unplayable in any deck. there's no reason to deliberately design them like that. I'd be fine with a 3/2 for {u}{u}{u} this is the mentality of design i despise. you can get 4/5 for GGG, a 3/3 flying for WW. other colors' creatures keep getting pushed to new levels, while blue creatures remains lame and unusable. not only in terms of P/T, even their abilities are years behind. anyway, i can change his P/T, but at the same time will make his trigger more interesting. same with others in the cycle. and save the 3/2 for {2}{u} for something more interesting.

Heh. It's interesting that in other contexts, people are complaining about how "blue's meant to be the worst colour at creatures, why does it get such absurdly good rares/mythics like Master of Waves?" Also note all the complaints that abounded when Delver of Secrets was the most-played one-drop creature and Snapcaster Mage the most-played two-drop creature. At least, if you're planning to up the power level of blue creatures, I hope you're planning to make a similar drop in the power level of blue noncreatures.

(I do take your point when you say "the proportion of playable blue creatures is ridiculously low", though. Blue tends to have a tiny handful of very high power-level tournament creatures, and the rest are duff Limited fodder. Mind you, I suppose most creatures in every colour are duff Limited fodder these days.)

It's not just about the colours' relative power levels though. It's about keeping their creatures feeling characteristic. White, blue and black in general get creatures with more toughness than power; red the reverse. Every colour gets Alpha Myr and Omega Myr, but apart from that, they do try quite strongly to keep to that feeling. That's why Loxodon Convert felt so much like he was a Phyrexian betrayer even with no rules text at all: white doesn't get 4/2s normally. This is the same kind of thing.

if blue is the worst in combat, i can sort of understand, but throwing blue a bone once in a while doesn't make blue overpowered. OTOH it doesn't even get (that many) good utility creatures to compensate. sure blue gets one good creature per set. meanwhile other colors get easily a handful of great creatures per set. so over the course of a year, the number of playable blue creatures is a tiny fraction of each of the other colors. IOW it's really stupid to leave out an entire color from the most important card type in the game. that's like saying green shouldn't get any good instants because it's the creature color.

even the argument about good spells is fallacy. other colors are getting better and better spells every set. hell, they have even better card advantage nowadays than blue, in the form of both creatures and spells. blue doesn't even get good spells anymore. the so-called OP blue spells recently were reprints: Mana Leak, Preordain. Delver became useless when those rotated out, i mean when the only two good spells that blue had rotated out. (okay vapor snag too).

let's see what blue effects and strategies have been neutered and being pulled back in power: counterspells, card draw, control magic, creatures. what does it get in return? better bounce? compared to white, black, red and even green getting better removal. better control? right now control decks are reliant on gold and nonblue sweepers and removal.

Look at Grand Architect. On paper, this should have dominated Standard. Too bad blue didn't have enough decent creatures to support him. He was barely T2, all thanks to Wurmcoil Engine really. Even in other formats with all the blue creatures and artifacts available, he doesn't appear on the radar in competitive formats.

Master of Waves haven't proven himself yet. He could be another Grand Architect, both rely on having a density of good blue creatures, which apparently doesn't exist. which hasn't existed since the last tribal block.

If blue is the tricksy, smart color, then give me some tricksy, smart blue creatures. Not a bunch of 1/1 for {2}{u} that do nothing but waste ink and space. they're not good in combat, not good outside of combat, can't protect the player, can't give card advantage, can't control the board. is it a surprise when blue players get ecstatic when they get a good creature which only happens once or twice a year?

summarize: blue is last in combat creatures by far. blue is at or near the bottom in utility creatures. blue is no longer the king of card advantage. blue is good in control, but only with support from other colors, ie gold cards, sweepers. blue cards fit in narrow spectrum of decks, where other colors have a variety of decks and have no limitation in design space and power.

For what it's worth, I'd be cool with pulling all the powerful instants out of Green because it's 'the creature color'. In fact, I kind of wish they did that sort of thing more in the 5 colors, strengthening the differences in the color pie. Most of the problem with weak blue creatures has a lot more to do with the fact that the other colors don't seem to have as obvious a hindrance as blue does IMHO.

Also, mostly I support Cancel being nudged to {2}{u}{u}, though it has nothing to do with this argument, or the power of blue creatures. Cancel is just strong... it stops almost anything, except for cards that come with rider specifically so Cancel won't stop it. Blue instants really haven't gotten nerfed... they're still some of the strongest effects in the game of Magic. Blue card advantage is still better than the card advantage in all the other colors, and it's in constant use. It's worse than it was in Mirage, and worse than it was in Mirrodin, and the rest of the game has gotten better. That doesn't mean it isn't still great.

You have a reasonable argument, amuseum, but I'm pretty sure something would have to give in blue, or the rest of the colors, for blue to get a better stable of creatures. I mean, all one has to do is look at the tournament results from 2012 to see that the power level of blue is doing just fine. When Snapcaster was marginalized, blue continued to show it had plenty of depth, and continued to make strong decks without him.

I do agree, though, that blue should get better creatures... if only to change things up after 20 years of getting the suck. I'd also like those creatures to not just be better because they have the same p/t, but they also have evasion. That's been overdone in blue, as well. Big scary blue with a 'drawback'... like milling yourself 1 every turn... would be nice for a change of pace. You could even do it with modern design expectations by keeping it to common, and some uncommon only, and shipping all the good blue instants to uncommon and rare, if balancing with the rest of Magic's history was your thing.

Or, in other words, I have no problem with this card being a 3/2 common, for example. Just as long as every color had, say, 3 great commons, 4 good commons, 4 okay commons, 3 questionable commons, and a stinker. That might mean that a card like Cancel gets bumped to Uncommon... I think the real problem with blue is that R&D keeps too many good non-creature effects at common, and by the time they're done running the numbers, they find they have to cut the better blue creatures. Then they turn around and justify it by telling us that 'blue doesn't get good creatures', even though they designed good blue creatures, and they didn't break anything. There just isn't enough space, as long as they want to keep good cards like Divination common.

That's why Loxodon Convert felt so much like he was a Phyrexian betrayer even with no rules text at all: white doesn't get 4/2s normally. This is the same kind of thing.

No, it means WotC is very willing to experiment with white's P/T to its limits, while blue gets the typical overcosted and underpowered crap.

Speaking of white, now here's the real powerhouse of the last few years. Best creatures, best removal, best card advantage, best hosers. Currently played in 3 different control decks, 2 midrange, and a ton of aggro, and other niche like reanimator. And people are still ragging on blue, who is stuck in control and once in a while gets to play aggro?

Another idea for making better blue creatures: Start moving "This creature can't block" into blue. Flavor it as mistlike, or illusion, or emanating from the mind or something. Blue would get very aggressive, very fast, without breaking a damn thing.

2013-12-01 23:20:39: amuseum moved the card Naigong Fallsdiver from So Ling 素靈 into Kin Kwan 乾坤

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