Necronomicon: Cardlist | Visual spoiler | Export | Booster | Comments | Search | Recent activity

CardName: Primordial Reptiles Cost: 3G Type: Creature - Lizard Warrior Pow/Tgh: 2/2 Rules Text: First strike {R}{R}: Primordial Reptiles deals damage equal to its power to target creature, then that creature deals damage equal to its power to Primordial Reptiles if that creature doesn't have lethal damage marked on it. Flavour Text: Set/Rarity: Necronomicon Rare

Primordial Reptiles
{3}{g}
 
 R 
Creature – Lizard Warrior
First strike
{r}{r}: Primordial Reptiles deals damage equal to its power to target creature, then that creature deals damage equal to its power to Primordial Reptiles if that creature doesn't have lethal damage marked on it.
2/2
Updated on 03 Apr 2012 by dude1818

History: [-]

2012-04-02 18:58:49: dude1818 created the card Primordial Reptiles

In its fight ability, it's supposed to deal damage first, then only receive damage if it didn't kill the other creature, like first strike in combat. I have no clue if that works. I think that it would require SBEs to be checked in between the two damage-dealing effects.

I think you probably just want to turn this into Provoke + "May only be blocked by creatures targeted by this ability".

As is, there's a slightly different functionality in that you can put this on the stack twice in order to trade for a 1/4, or other values depending on pump. But that they've gone and defined Fight makes similar concepts "confusing by association" if they don't work like Fight does.

So, to clarify, my suggestion would be something like:

Reptiles of the Nameless City
­{3}{g}
Creature - Lizard Warrior
3/3
­{r}: ~ gains first strike until end of turn.
­{g}: Target creature an opponent controls blocks ~ this turn if able. Until end of turn, ~ may only be blocked by creatures targeted by this ability.

Unfortunately, I can only think of "funny" answers to this wording, not any actually helpful ones :)

So far I've considered:

"First strike. // First strike applies during fights. // RR: ~ fights target creature."

"First strike, Wither. // RR: ~ deals damage equal to its power to target creature, then that creature deals damage equal to its power to ~."

"First strike. // RR: ~ deals damage equal to its power to target creature. // When it does, that creature deals damage equal to its power to ~."

­:)

2012-04-02 20:39:23: dude1818 edited Primordial Reptiles
on 03 Apr 2012 by Visitor:

­{r}{r}: ~ deals damage equal to its power to target creature. If that creature did not die, it deals damage equal to its power to ~.

I had a few other ideas, but if this template works, it seems like the best way to get the card's point across.

The problem is that the other creature can't die until after the complete resolution of the ability, because SBEs aren't checked until then.

"Whenever a creature is dealt damage by ~, if it's on the battlefield, it deals damage equal to its power to ~".

Unfortunately it changes combat so that First Strike damage gives a blocker twice as much damage (block, survive, deal blocking damage). And Wizards haven't defined "noncombat damage" afaict.

Also, multiple activations of the ability break this :)

on 03 Apr 2012 by Visitor:

­

For some reason, Wizards seems loath to use "lethal damage" in rules text. There is only one card that does so, and it's a rules quagmire in its own right. (Yes, indestructible cards reference lethal damage in their reminder text, but that is just to tell you disregard lethal damage, which is comparatively safe.)

­{r}{r}: ~ fights target creature. When a creature dealt damage in this way dies, regenerate ~.

I worry this has the same problem as my last suggestion.

It's hard to phrase this cleanly, because you only want the ability to damage ~ if the target survives, but you don't know if the target survives until the ability resolves. This puts the onus on the card text to predict whether the target will survive the ability... I am purposely choosing to ignore how deathtouch, protection, indestructible, etc. would interact with any of my proposed solutions for purposes of retaining my sanity.

I suspect that the reason that Wizards avoids the term "lethal damage" is that until the creature's in the graveyard, it's difficult for non-rules-lawyers to tell what exactly constitutes lethal damage. This raises the specter of "You may not sacrifice a creature that is on its way to the graveyard." (See the original Atog if you don't know what I'm talking about.)

I was surprised to learn while reading up on the lethal damage rules that the current version of ~'s ability result in a draw when used on an animated Darksteel Brute. The lethal damage doesn't kill the Brute, but it does prevent it from hitting back. Don't know if that is a problem, but it's something to be aware of.

The obvious solution is to set up a delayed trigger that lets the target hit back if it's alive, but there's a reason not to do so- this creates a window for trickery that makes the ability even less like fight and further muddles the flavor.

I rather like this version:

­{r}{r}: ~ fights target creature if its toughness is greater than ~'s power. Otherwise, destroy that creature.

As much as I'd like to whittle this down to one tilde, I don't see it happening. You need a tilde to use "fight" or reference itself to check power/toughness, so you can only do so much. It does seem to capture the flavor of the ability, which I take to be "I ambush things when I can, but I will go full-frontal if I have to."

This is going long, but I also just noticed that there is no printed instance of the "fight" ability that is able to be played multiple times per turn- they are all attached to one-off instants/sorceries or {t}/sacrifice costs.

I doubt your intention was for these reptiles to be able to chew through Wall of Stone for {r}{r}{r}{r}{r}{r}{r}{r}. At the least, I'd suggest "Use this ability only once each turn."

2012-04-03 19:19:40: dude1818 edited Primordial Reptiles

First of all, if you're willing to pump in that much red mana, I'm fine with you activating it multiple times. Second, I like Jack's suggestion of wither. Unfortunately, this would still die to a Rotting Fensnake in that case. Third, the only issue with lethal damage is its interaction with indestructibility. The current interaction is a bit weird, but it shouldn't occur very often. Only 36 cards are indestructible creatures or grant it to creatures. Edit: 37 with the new Avacyn, Angel of Hope.

on 03 Apr 2012 by Visitor:

Thumbs up @ new name.

Add your comments:


(formatting help)
Enter mana symbols like this: {2}{U}{U/R}{PR}, {T} becomes {2}{u}{u/r}{pr}, {t}
You can use Markdown such as _italic_, **bold**, ## headings ##
Link to [[[Official Magic card]]] or (((Card in Multiverse)))
Include [[image of official card]] or ((image or mockup of card in Multiverse))
Make hyperlinks like this: [text to show](destination url)
How much damage does this card deal? Lightning Bolt
(Signed-in users don't get captchas and can edit their comments)