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CardName: Soradyne Industrial Campus Cost: Type: Legendary Land Pow/Tgh: / Rules Text: You may choose not to untap Soradyne Industrial Campus during your upkeep. {T}: Add {1} to your mana pool. {5}, {T}: Choose a card type. As long as Soradyne Industrial Campus remains tapped, spells of the chosen type cost you {2} less to cast. Flavour Text: What we imagine, we achieve. —Soradyne Corporation motto Set/Rarity: Soradyne Laboratories v1.2 Rare

Soradyne Industrial Campus
 
 R 
Legendary Land
You may choose not to untap Soradyne Industrial Campus during your upkeep.
{t}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{5}, {t}: Choose a card type. As long as Soradyne Industrial Campus remains tapped, spells of the chosen type cost you {2} less to cast.
What we imagine, we achieve.
—Soradyne Corporation motto
Updated on 15 Apr 2012 by SFletcher

Code: RL01

Active?: true

History: [-]

2012-04-11 20:48:00: SFletcher created the card Soradyne Industrial Campus
2012-04-11 20:55:57: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

I̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶e̶n̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶a̶p̶p̶e̶d̶.̶ Actually, tapping at the end of your turn isn't much of a drawback: it only really hurts reactive decks that operate at instant-speed. I don't understand the flavor of it always becoming tapped, either.

I went back and forth in whether it should enter tapped.

The idea with it tapping itself is to make it less appealing to control decks that want to do everything during the opponent's turn. It forces a bit more of a pro-active play approach. I can rework the flavor text to better illustrate that.

I'm with dude1818 here. Any deck that's going to use it will use it immediately, and I'm not sure how the name and the ability interact.

2012-04-11 21:44:12: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

I was trying to say that it does need to enter tapped, once I realized that the drawback was minor. Unfortunately, strikethrough HTML doesn't encode on Multiverse. But for some reason, when I generate text at http://adamvarga.com/strike/ it turns into actual strikethrough.

Hmm. Will re-concept this.

2012-04-12 01:06:28: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

New angle: Power for the infrastructure you’ve already built.

2012-04-12 01:09:01: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

I like this version. The second mana ability is a bit clunky, though.

Is it desirable at “1 mana of any color or {2}” and without the mana to activate it? Would it be busted as-is without the {1} to activate it?

And does it need to come in tapped now?

I've got a weird idea:

What if this was actually like... a power node or something.

Debronian Power Station
Land
CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped. You may choose not to untap during your untap step.
­{t}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
As long as CARDNAME remains tapped, activated abilities of permanents you control cost {1} less to activate.

I don't know whether cheaper activated abilities is really ever such a big deal, but I suppose multiples off these could make someone play Level-Up guys in Modern. Maybe. Not likely.

Debronian Power Station seems like a cool idea, but would probably fit at uncommon.

Newbridge may not need to ETBT, unless mana-activated abilities are prevalent in the block. What I meant earlier was that it seemed awkward to produce colored mana or {3}, though I suppose "add {x} or {y}" is common enough.

2012-04-12 13:32:02: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

Interesting design. Hard to tell, but it's probably balanced. Would be fun in storm decks: leave it untapped from the last turn, use the mana to start a chain of Pyretic Rituals or whatever, untap it after the third one, two more mana for the finale.

I think the problem now is that it will ONLY fit in Storm decks, unless this triggers off mana abilities, in which case why even have that restriction? Most of the time it's difficult to get two spells/abilities played in a turn.

This leaves storm decks or aggro decks which can't afford to have a land EIB tapped.

Maybe put the trigger at two?

I like this design, but I have no idea what the trigger is doing in your set. Maybe it'd be too heavy-handed to have this land oriented towards combat spell-casting, but reacting to the number of spells and abilities just seems out of place. Also, note that there are a number of activated abilities that can be activated with a cost of {0}, like Demonspine Whip, making the drawback somewhat superficial. (Though that's admittedly a corner-case scenario.)

Three spells and/or abilities in a turn isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially when it counts both players. The set has a reasonable number of activation costs – including a zero-equip cost equipment, so between casting a spell or two and using something on the table, it should come online with decent frequency. I'm more afraid of three being too low than too high.

As for the mechanic, I see it as a potential tease to the third set, where the final machination of the prime conspirator plays out. The whole endgame of the story comes down to one huge play to sway the people of Debronia into a near-genocidal wave of social supremacy.

(Spoiller, they learn to hate vampires as much as the Reigsman Empire.)

You shouldn't let mana abilities count (they're a type of activated ability): "Whenever the third spell or nonmana activated ability each turn is played, untap Newbridge."

2012-04-12 18:51:27: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

Thinking about this card some more, there are a number of issues:

The most straight-forward concern is the composite effect of its word count and overall complexity. You have an extensive "drawback" clause, a complex trigger that depends on the actions of both players, and that trigger causes the land to untap itself.

That last bit is important due to gameplay implications. There has never been a land that untaps itself, though it's arguable that Deserted Temple and Minamo, School at Water's Edge can be used to do so if you were so inclined. I think the reason for this is that players have a habit of disregarding lands that are tapped, especially since you typically only care about your opponent's lands under permission situations (i.e. can my opponent counter my spell?). Moreover, unless you're battling a fellow by the name of Pablo Doritos who likes to play his lands in front of his other permanents, your opponent's lands are the things on the perimeter of your attention. In this situation, this is especially relevant because the trigger responds to everyone's actions. To illustrate:

Player A starts their turn by playing a tapped Newbridge, equips a dude, and enters combat. After blockers are declared, Player A taps out to Feint in their Viper Wrangler. In response Player B, seeing that their opponent is tapped out, attempts to (((Dupe))) the Viper Wrangler. Wokka wokka! Newbridge untaps on the casting of Dupe, and suddenly Player A has the mana to pay for Dupe.

This circumstance isn't entirely unique, Force of Will is a thing after all, but because it's the result of an on-board permanent that Player B technically should have read and been aware of, the "feel bad" moment is that much more intense. AND it's all because of something as subtle as someone equipping a creature before they cast their durdle.

This one card dramatically increases the necessary degree of awareness for all players, in a set that I really don't think can take on that burden.

I'm not seeing that myself but: I could be wrong. I just don't see most turns having 3 spells/abilities happening and this land being pretty bunko, most of the time.

It doesn't matter whether it's good or bad, as I would guess that this isn't much better than Forsaken City, the issue is that its badness is the heart of a complex system.

If they've gone damn near 20 years without printing a land that can untap itself in a manner similar to this, I imagine there's a good reason for that.

2012-04-13 02:14:42: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

The ability seems way too expensive given that it loses you a mana source. I suppose it makes up for that by reducing spells' costs, but it would take a while to break even.

I've considered bumping the bonus up to {2} off simply based on the fact that of you only throw down, say, one creature a turn, then the ability is no better than just tapping the land for mana. My concern is that it effectively becomes an all-purpose artifact with fewer vulnerabilities. By that same token, I think a 6-drop artifact that had you sac a land to get this ability would probably be reasonably fair.

2012-04-13 14:34:44: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

Between the Medallions (Jet Medallion, etc...), Cloud Key, and a variety of other things, I think this looks good, but I really don't see a reason for it to enter tapped.

It has the potential to be the Changeling equivalent of Eye of Ugin, but as dude1818 said, it'll take a while to break even. And you've already got multiple drawbacks:

  1. It's legendary.
  2. It only produces colorless mana.
  3. It stops being a functional land to turn on its ability.

This was Rosewater's comment regarding my Diabolic Ruse when it appeared on Ethan Fleischer's design test:

MR: Usually when you create an effect that needs a drawback you can choose one of two paths. You can put restrictions on what the player can do or you can not give the player everything they want. I feel on this card you did both.

There's a similar cumulative effect of having that many drawbacks. If people can't live the dream of having multiple reactors powered up, don't make it take so long to turn one of these guys on.

Points taken. And after the Cloud Key comparison, I'm a lot less nervous about the power level of this.

Should this be the Soradyne Industrial Campus rather than Newbridge?

2012-04-13 16:02:02: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

I really like the flavor text, which technically makes the most sense if the land is conceptualized as the nation's capital. But mechanically it does seem a bit more like it'd belong to Soradyne. I'm sure you and Dan can suss out what seems best.

2012-04-13 20:24:08: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

I think the flavor text still works. Dan?

It still works but I think we came up with a Soradyne motto and this might be the place for it. If not, then I'm getting on that posthaste.

That was "Better Living Through Technomancy", but I think we might have already put that on something.

You had used it on Soradyne Central Matrix on May 13, 2011. I googled the phrase and found that it's also the slogan of the Body Bank, from another game.

Personally, I love the slogan. I think Better Living Through Technomancy™ would be great flavor text by itself.

2012-04-15 16:16:34: SFletcher edited Soradyne Industrial Campus

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