Thats kinda why I don't like it. I mean it's counter intuitive to what you want to do with your creatures. It's like the "ability" to discard cards. Sure, it might get you a good effect like madness or threshold but people don't like discarding cards and I don't think they'd like hurting their own guys.
My other pickle is that the ability has nothing to do with emus or the emu tribes personality. This ability could go on any angry army person.
Note it only gets 1 +1/+1 counter for each source of life loss, so losing 5 life with only give you 1 counter. If I change swarm to 0/1 creatures, I think this will be fair. We still would obviously need to keep an eye on the mechanic in general though because I think we can all agree it is an effect that can easily get abused with the right supporting cards. Still for most swarm cards you will need a way of putting the counters on them in the first place and then a way to buff the tokens for this to become anything scary.
My original design had them go on at EOT but that has memory issues, is worded much worse and leads to weird sequencing. If you want to deal a damage to a battleforged creature to buff him up during your opponents turn, you'd need to do it in their 2nd main phase for it to trigger during their EOT.
The burn spell thing isn't a big deal, it's a triggered ability so they can just respond to the damage trigger with the other burn spells if needed.
Not a fan of the change Izaac. The -1 toughness was there to discourage the game from getting to the point where one player just got to bring back and attack with their ancestry creatures forever by allowing the opponent to trade off for your guys quicker. It encourages trading and stops the game from reaching a repetitive boardstate.
He gave himself the bonus since he'd come back attacking and use the bonus himself.
Giving swarm creatures a downside doesn't really help. That's a band-aid solution, we'd have too much trouble balancing each card.
If they were 0/1's...Hmm, it's interesting. I mean you'd still find yourself with shittons of 0/1's but it does give creedence to the term "swarm". We'd have to watch out how many anthem effects we make in the set but it could work. You'd certainly feel powerful making tons of creatures. You wouldn't need a lot to go off with it but I feel that'd be better.
Priest mispelt. I feel like swarm is super super strong. I mean the tribe would have to have a ton of +1 counters to support this and it quickly spirals out of control.
Creatures you control, means he will be effected by that as well. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Perhaps he is a cruel general overworking his men, since they get +2/-1. Could just give them all intimidate or something instead but its fine as it is.
2016-08-14 10:57:34:
Trains
edited a mechanic in Rileria
The creatures having to enter the battlefield this turn makes this mechanic fair but it also makes this mechanic feel like a green blue mechanic a lot more than a green black one, which coincidentally suits frogs XD.
Honestly I really like the ability. There have been a lot of mechanics that only belong on creatures and have limited design space but still worked in their sets. I am concerned it could easily become too powerful, depends on the other cards in the set though. Perhaps putting the counters on at end of turn, so that the higher battleforged are killable by multiple burn spells and you have to way up damaging your creatures for the turn to get long turn benifits. That way you can keep the damage from non-combat sources buffing them without it being too powerful.
For what it's worth, my first thought was that this mechanic really wants to be in Selesnya. Going wide with lots of creatures has always been those two color's goals. Leaving defensive reach creatures untapped while swinging with a single big creature is a common green tactic, and vigilance is second in green... so a big GW vigilance creature to walk alongside your Piety creatures makes sense.
What might work better is if it were opponents creatures.
"Consume 4 (Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, you may pay 4 and exile that creature, if you do, put four +1/+1 counters on this creature and tap it)"
Thats kinda why I don't like it. I mean it's counter intuitive to what you want to do with your creatures. It's like the "ability" to discard cards. Sure, it might get you a good effect like madness or threshold but people don't like discarding cards and I don't think they'd like hurting their own guys.
My other pickle is that the ability has nothing to do with emus or the emu tribes personality. This ability could go on any angry army person.
Yeah I guess you're right. Maybe +1 attack would be enough (at non-rare) in that case because it's spammable.
Note it only gets 1 +1/+1 counter for each source of life loss, so losing 5 life with only give you 1 counter. If I change swarm to 0/1 creatures, I think this will be fair. We still would obviously need to keep an eye on the mechanic in general though because I think we can all agree it is an effect that can easily get abused with the right supporting cards. Still for most swarm cards you will need a way of putting the counters on them in the first place and then a way to buff the tokens for this to become anything scary.
My original design had them go on at EOT but that has memory issues, is worded much worse and leads to weird sequencing. If you want to deal a damage to a battleforged creature to buff him up during your opponents turn, you'd need to do it in their 2nd main phase for it to trigger during their EOT.
The burn spell thing isn't a big deal, it's a triggered ability so they can just respond to the damage trigger with the other burn spells if needed.
Not a fan of the change Izaac. The -1 toughness was there to discourage the game from getting to the point where one player just got to bring back and attack with their ancestry creatures forever by allowing the opponent to trade off for your guys quicker. It encourages trading and stops the game from reaching a repetitive boardstate.
He gave himself the bonus since he'd come back attacking and use the bonus himself.
As it is this card seems absurd, losing life happens often, this card could easily get huge.
It also looks like it could lead to really boring gamestates, discouraging attacking this heavily looks like it would produce a massive boardstall.
I like the mechanic though. Just not the way this card uses it.
Giving swarm creatures a downside doesn't really help. That's a band-aid solution, we'd have too much trouble balancing each card.
If they were 0/1's...Hmm, it's interesting. I mean you'd still find yourself with shittons of 0/1's but it does give creedence to the term "swarm". We'd have to watch out how many anthem effects we make in the set but it could work. You'd certainly feel powerful making tons of creatures. You wouldn't need a lot to go off with it but I feel that'd be better.
Yep, you're right. Maybe if i give the creatures with it more downsides it could be balanced. What if the tokens were 0/1s?
Priest mispelt. I feel like swarm is super super strong. I mean the tribe would have to have a ton of +1 counters to support this and it quickly spirals out of control.
See Chasm Skulker: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383206 or Hangarback Walker. It's a super strong ability and if this is going on a common then it's going to be broken.
Tweaked values and wording
Creatures you control, means he will be effected by that as well. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Perhaps he is a cruel general overworking his men, since they get +2/-1. Could just give them all intimidate or something instead but its fine as it is.
Alright new mechanic, new creature type and new mana cost. Basically a new card XD. I have a better feeling about this one.
Just replacing the card since the original idea was a bust.
The creatures having to enter the battlefield this turn makes this mechanic fair but it also makes this mechanic feel like a green blue mechanic a lot more than a green black one, which coincidentally suits frogs XD.
Honestly I really like the ability. There have been a lot of mechanics that only belong on creatures and have limited design space but still worked in their sets. I am concerned it could easily become too powerful, depends on the other cards in the set though. Perhaps putting the counters on at end of turn, so that the higher battleforged are killable by multiple burn spells and you have to way up damaging your creatures for the turn to get long turn benifits. That way you can keep the damage from non-combat sources buffing them without it being too powerful.
Thanks for the input, I will have a rethink and update it before Wednesday.
That's probably a good idea. I will spend some time before Wednesday to update the mechanic and this card.
For what it's worth, my first thought was that this mechanic really wants to be in Selesnya. Going wide with lots of creatures has always been those two color's goals. Leaving defensive reach creatures untapped while swinging with a single big creature is a common green tactic, and vigilance is second in green... so a big GW vigilance creature to walk alongside your Piety creatures makes sense.
What might work better is if it were opponents creatures.
"Consume 4 (Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, you may pay 4 and exile that creature, if you do, put four +1/+1 counters on this creature and tap it)"