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CardName: Cave of Antimagic Cost: Type: Land Pow/Tgh: / Rules Text: (This card may be deleted in future.) Shroud {2}{U}{U}, {T}, Sacrifice Cave of Antimagic: Counter target spell. {2}{W}{W}, {T}, Sacrifice Cave of Antimagic: Destroy target enchantment. Flavour Text: Set/Rarity: Ziveruskex and Strixan Rare

Cave of Antimagic
(This card may be deleted in future.)
{2}{u}{u}, {t}, Sacrifice Cave of Antimagic: Counter target spell.
{2}{w}{w}, {t}, Sacrifice Cave of Antimagic: Destroy target enchantment.
Updated on 30 Mar 2022 by zzo38

Code: 31

History: [-]

I think it's a bad idea to put that first ability on a land in a way that's so trivially easy to repeat, especially since you gave the land shroud.

Ah, probably you are correct. (What are your suggestion for improvement, then? One idea I have is to lose shroud while it is tapped, perhaps "~ cannot be the target of spells and abilities while it is untapped"; or maybe a better idea would be to remove shroud entirely.)

My suggestion would be to not put that ability on a land.

I removed shroud and added another ability instead. I also decided to increase the cost of the activated abilities. Is it better?

It's really not. Once you have this in play; opponents can no longer cast their first spell each turn. Which gives you the time to get a second one into play.

It's just repeated boring 'every game will play out the ame way'. And it even has a built-in way to make "Stop doing that!" not work.

O, then maybe adding all of these things, too (in addition to what it already has):

  • Its activated abilities cause it to not untap during your next untap step.

  • It cannot counter spells that target this land.

  • The first ability does not work while it is tapped.

  • You must sacrifice a land when it enters the battlefield.

  • The discarded card must have a different mana value than the target.

How about something more simple?

  • Add "noncreature" to the first ability.
  • Remove the ward ability entirely.

Note that the first abilities says "abilities cost an additional {2}", but that seems to make sense only for activated abilities. Triggered abilities don't come with costs by default. Usually this kind of ability only refers to spells (if 11 examples out of over a myriad can be called "usually").

yea this card is very problematic, as already stated by many. repeatable counter spell basically soft locks the opponent. on a card type that can't be countered, is already hard to remove (very few play land destruction), and you even gave it extra protection. really?

2022-02-05 23:43:06: zzo38 edited Cave of Antimagic:

This card may be deleted in future.

2022-02-05 23:46:05: zzo38 edited Cave of Antimagic
2022-02-06 00:03:37: zzo38 edited Cave of Antimagic

Have you heard of the concept of elegance?

­Ice Cauldron has about 90 words on it. It's nigh unreadable. Garruk Relentless actually has more words in it, about 112, but it's double-sided card so.

This has somewhere in the range of 140 words. It's about +50% increase compared to the card that was already hard to read. I had to set the zoom of my browser to 150% to be able to read it here.

Looks like it's like a spellshaper that has both Demystify and Counterspell modes on it... So repeated counterspells... on a land.

Printing the text at normal size... it run down to about where Secret made the comment "How about something more simple?" So yes; clearly this wording is a bit silly :)

A useful check for what you can do on a land is: "Would you do it on a {2} cost artifact?" If so, then it's about the right power level for a land to have it.

Spellshaping is also kind of dangerous for "Ok, got my spellshaper, all the randomness is now gone." reasons. They have a tendency to lead to "New game, same as the last game" situations. Not to say that you can't print a spellshaper - they can and did. Just that you need to be a bit careful about what you put on one.

Right - on to the shaped effects you have here.

Extra tax, unless tapped. That's kind of a nifty tweak on the extra-cost to target. Not a big thing; I could take it or leave it. But if I'm taking it, I want to see it on a BUNCH of cards in the set, not just a land or two.

"Counter target spell that has a different casting cost to the card you discarded" is actually really interesting. I like that - it addresses some of the spellshaping concerns (that once it's gone off you don't care about what you draw any more). Though not all of them, since the opponent probably won't know what you've got.

"Make target creature spell vanilla" (except for shroud; why is shroud omitted?) - that's also an interesting effect. I like it. I would definitely like to see that as a white psuedo-counterspell. I think here, it's detracting from the card as a whole, just by trying to do too many things in one place - but the effect itself is interesting. (Though as before repeated counterspellshaping on a land... yeahbutno.)

The final one - again, the card is trying to do too many things. This is the least objecitonable of those things - but it's still a kind of an overpowered hose.

Top down; a cave where magic doesn't work... Brainstorming here: One of your creatures can hide there, to get hexproof. Or to flip the idea of antimagic around: Has some beneficial effect if you don't cast spells. (somehow. Ugh, magic makes that hard to word). Something where you feed cards to it (from hand? From deck?) and once it's full; it flips over into being a cave of wonder instead (full of; I dunno; treasure tokens?)

OK, I think you are right. I can consider what you mention in your last paragraph; it seem it may be a good idea. Therefore, cave of antimagic will be something entirely different from what I currently have.

(Possibly, some of the other effects could be moved to different cards instead (and possibly modified a bit), or maybe just removed entirely. Possibly to another card with cumulative upkeep, to avoid repeating it every turn often.)

2022-03-30 23:44:57: zzo38 edited Cave of Antimagic:

Simplified (although it probably will still be deleted, it is not deleted yet)

2022-03-30 23:45:21: zzo38 edited Cave of Antimagic

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